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 Post subject: Re: Six Yogas of Naropa
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:08 pm 
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Does that mean guru devotion trumps the view-meditation-conduct schema? I always thought the view is critically important in achieving realization?


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 Post subject: Re: Six Yogas of Naropa
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:10 pm 
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Clarence wrote:
Does that mean guru devotion trumps the view-meditation-conduct schema? I always thought the view is critically important in achieving realization?


as Dzogchen view includes all views you take no risk ...

Sönam

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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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 Post subject: Re: Six Yogas of Naropa
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:01 pm 
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Sönam wrote:
Clarence wrote:
Does that mean guru devotion trumps the view-meditation-conduct schema? I always thought the view is critically important in achieving realization?


as Dzogchen view includes all views you take no risk ...

Sönam


i am not sure i am following the logic

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Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha


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 Post subject: Re: Six Yogas of Naropa
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:19 pm 
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conebeckham wrote:
The Path of Liberation, or the Path of Mahamudra, complements the Path of Means, but it is often taught separately, and almost always gradually, outside of strict retreat. The common "Karma Kagyu Ngondro" is actually part of that path--it's not really part of the Path of Means, which has it's own ngondro.


Thank you.

So is it that certain teachers teach the Path of Means and others teach the Path of Liberation? Or should one ask their teacher and state their interest in the Path of Liberation?

I'm really interested in focusing on gradual Mahamudra and then later when the conditions are there for me to do retreat, and if necessary, I'd like to focus on the Path of Means. I met with a Karma Kagyu Lama recently and told him my interest in beginning Vajrayana practice. I'm coming back to meet with him again soon, but I don't know if it's considered 'rude' to state that I want to focus on Path of Liberation rather than Means.


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 Post subject: Re: Six Yogas of Naropa
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:49 pm 
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I think it's natural that a Kagyu Lama would teach you the Path of Liberation, starting gradually, with ngondro, and with all that entails--general Mahayana foundations, etc.
My feeling is that most Karma Kagyu follow a path that includes Chenrezig practice, often as a "beginning" sadhana, and perhaps ngondro, as well as Shinay and Lhatong, and Lojong (Mind Training) as basics. Study, as well.....

3 Year Retreat is the standard device by which the Path of Means is taught, in the Karma Kagyu lineage, and students who enter such retreats almost always have history with a given teacher, or at least with the methods stressed by Karma Kagyu Lamas.

Hope that helps.

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 Post subject: Re: Six Yogas of Naropa
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:12 am 
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Clarence wrote:
Does that mean guru devotion trumps the view-meditation-conduct schema? I always thought the view is critically important in achieving realization?


Guru yoga is the method to perfect the view.


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