Enlightenment

Enlightenment

Postby TheWay » Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:08 pm

So I had a question I wanted to ask those who practice zen/chan etc.( i enjoy learning about diffrent views of buddhism)

1)What is the process for a normal person who just started zen/chan to reach full enlightenment, anuttara samyak sambodhi?
2)Are there diffrent levels of enlightement?How to " climb" the levels?
3)What is the diffrence between a zen practicioner who has reached enlightenment(any level) and a Arahat?
4)What are the diffrence & similarities in zen schools on the view of enlightenment?

(please i don't want this to turn into a secterian view of my buddhism is better or higher than yours, these are just questions that intrest me.)


THANK YOU
:sage: :anjali: :namaste:
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby Astus » Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:40 pm

(my version of answers)

1)What is the process for a normal person who just started zen/chan to reach full enlightenment, anuttara samyak sambodhi?

Study, practise, realise. Then study, practise, realise. Then... for innumerable lives. This is dedication and effort, the two important things to keep on walking the path.
As for the specifics, it depends on under whom and in what tradition you practise.

2)Are there diffrent levels of enlightement?How to " climb" the levels?

Yes and no. Levels in Zen can be many or few, from 3 to 52. Stages are only weak explanations, you are either enlightened or not.

3)What is the diffrence between a zen practicioner who has reached enlightenment(any level) and a Arahat?

"Subhūti, what do you think? Does the arhat think, 'I have attained the realization of the arhat?' "
"No, World Honored One. And why not? There is, in reality, no such a thing called 'arhat.' World Honored One, if an arhat should give rise to the thought, 'I have attained the realization of the arhat, this would mean that he is attached to the notions of self, person, sentient being, and life span.' "

(Diamond Sutra, ch. 9)

4)What are the diffrence & similarities in zen schools on the view of enlightenment?

Clinging to any view is non-enlightenment. This is agreed on by all Buddhist schools.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby TheWay » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:09 am

Astus wrote:(my version of answers)

1)What is the process for a normal person who just started zen/chan to reach full enlightenment, anuttara samyak sambodhi?

Study, practise, realise. Then study, practise, realise. Then... for innumerable lives. This is dedication and effort, the two important things to keep on walking the path.
As for the specifics, it depends on under whom and in what tradition you practise.

2)Are there diffrent levels of enlightement?How to " climb" the levels?

Yes and no. Levels in Zen can be many or few, from 3 to 52. Stages are only weak explanations, you are either enlightened or not.

3)What is the diffrence between a zen practicioner who has reached enlightenment(any level) and a Arahat?

"Subhūti, what do you think? Does the arhat think, 'I have attained the realization of the arhat?' "
"No, World Honored One. And why not? There is, in reality, no such a thing called 'arhat.' World Honored One, if an arhat should give rise to the thought, 'I have attained the realization of the arhat, this would mean that he is attached to the notions of self, person, sentient being, and life span.' "

(Diamond Sutra, ch. 9)

4)What are the diffrence & similarities in zen schools on the view of enlightenment?

Clinging to any view is non-enlightenment. This is agreed on by all Buddhist schools.



Thank you for your to the point answers, i now realize how meaningless my third and fouth question are.
:smile:
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby LastLegend » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:35 am

TheWay wrote:So I had a question I wanted to ask those who practice zen/chan etc.( i enjoy learning about diffrent views of buddhism)

1)What is the process for a normal person who just started zen/chan to reach full enlightenment, anuttara samyak sambodhi?
2)Are there diffrent levels of enlightement?How to " climb" the levels?
3)What is the diffrence between a zen practicioner who has reached enlightenment(any level) and a Arahat?
4)What are the diffrence & similarities in zen schools on the view of enlightenment?

(please i don't want this to turn into a secterian view of my buddhism is better or higher than yours, these are just questions that intrest me.)


THANK YOU
:sage: :anjali: :namaste:


What's up son.

What do you hope to gain from Buddhism?
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby TheWay » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:02 am

LastLegend wrote:
TheWay wrote:So I had a question I wanted to ask those who practice zen/chan etc.( i enjoy learning about diffrent views of buddhism)

1)What is the process for a normal person who just started zen/chan to reach full enlightenment, anuttara samyak sambodhi?
2)Are there diffrent levels of enlightement?How to " climb" the levels?
3)What is the diffrence between a zen practicioner who has reached enlightenment(any level) and a Arahat?
4)What are the diffrence & similarities in zen schools on the view of enlightenment?

(please i don't want this to turn into a secterian view of my buddhism is better or higher than yours, these are just questions that intrest me.)


THANK YOU
:sage: :anjali: :namaste:


What's up son.

What do you hope to gain from Buddhism?


What's up pops :hi:
That's kind of a tough question, but i can say im not just trying to learn the dharma for kicks, or show the world how smart i am, or gain anything per se. hmmm i guess i like the fact the buddha was a man amongst men, and the possibility of this namarupas potential.
good question,something to think about, so in that manner i ask you the same;
what do you hope to gain from buddhism?
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby Kyosan » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:42 am

What does namarupas potential mean?
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby TheWay » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:02 am

Kyosan wrote:What does namarupas potential mean?

hmm good question :thinking:
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby LastLegend » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:14 am

TheWay wrote:
LastLegend wrote:
TheWay wrote:So I had a question I wanted to ask those who practice zen/chan etc.( i enjoy learning about diffrent views of buddhism)

1)What is the process for a normal person who just started zen/chan to reach full enlightenment, anuttara samyak sambodhi?
2)Are there diffrent levels of enlightement?How to " climb" the levels?
3)What is the diffrence between a zen practicioner who has reached enlightenment(any level) and a Arahat?
4)What are the diffrence & similarities in zen schools on the view of enlightenment?

(please i don't want this to turn into a secterian view of my buddhism is better or higher than yours, these are just questions that intrest me.)


THANK YOU
:sage: :anjali: :namaste:


What's up son.

What do you hope to gain from Buddhism?


What's up pops :hi:
That's kind of a tough question, but i can say im not just trying to learn the dharma for kicks, or show the world how smart i am, or gain anything per se. hmmm i guess i like the fact the buddha was a man amongst men, and the possibility of this namarupas potential.
good question,something to think about, so in that manner i ask you the same;
what do you hope to gain from buddhism?


Well the way we see things has been conditioned by the environment. So why not let the way we see things conditioned by Buddhism?
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby TheWay » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:37 pm


Well the way we see things has been conditioned by the environment. So why not let the way we see things conditioned by Buddhism?


i'm not quite sure what your asking,
How to get rid of these conditions we have about buddhism?
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby White Lotus » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:43 pm

The Way,
buddhism will give you a deep understanding of life, i guess its like learning the code of the street, respect for all life. also it can help you chill. it is a very rewarding thing.

Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby TheWay » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:50 pm

White Lotus wrote:The Way,
buddhism will give you a deep understanding of life, i guess its like learning the code of the street, respect for all life. also it can help you chill. it is a very rewarding thing.

Tom.


yes it has made me much more peaceful since the last year or so, i love my dhammapada,and sayings of honen and the nembutsu,i was just wanting to get some perspectives on how "enlightenment" was "understood" in chan.but i also want to let go of wrong views etc about buddhism; in terms of goal etc.
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby White Lotus » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:09 pm

in Chan, enlightenment (Kensho) is known as seeing your own nature... the nature of all things. thats kind of like saying ''know what you are''. this goes beyond knowing about the everyday things of what you like for breakafast or what you like and dont like.

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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