Sad, sob story

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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby Dechen Norbu » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:48 pm

I am qualified to talk about it, unlike you. So please stop saying rubbish as you end up making a fool of yourself, at least at the eyes of someone who knows what Psychology is about. GT should do what his doctor tells him to do, plain and simple. That is what he should be concerned about right now, not considering different Buddhist schools, whether Pure Land or any other.
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby LastLegend » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:52 pm

Dechen Norbu wrote:I am qualified to talk about it, unlike you. So please stop saying rubbish as you end up making a fool of yourself, at least at the eyes of someone who knows what Psychology is about. GT should do what his doctor tells him to do, plain and simple. That is what he should be concerned about right now, not considering different Buddhist schools, whether Pure Land or any other.


Again, as always you want to make some noise with me. I was very clear in what I said, I was not pushing. Just because you think what is best for him does not mean it is. Better to have options lay out, so that he can choose.

What do you know about psychology?
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby Dechen Norbu » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:56 pm

Enough to call the mods on this thread.
This ends now in what concerns me.
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby LastLegend » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:58 pm

Dechen Norbu wrote:Enough to call the mods on this thread.
This ends now in what concerns me.


Hehehe you mean back up.
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby Dechen Norbu » Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:04 am

I mean when I talk about qualified professionals I could be referring to myself. But I'm not a fool to give counseling over an internet forum based on half a dozen posts and my own preconceptions regarding the Buddhadharma. GT will be seeing a qualified professional, right? So he is doing the best thing he could do right now. When he finds himself well again, he can rethink his Dharma options. Right now that's not his most urgent concern. Seeing a therapist is. Perhaps because you don't know how to recognize some warning signs you don't realize you are on thin ice. So let's just end it here, ok?
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby LastLegend » Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:20 am

Dechen Norbu wrote:I mean when I talk about qualified professionals I could be referring to myself. But I'm not a fool to give counseling over an internet forum based on half a dozen posts and my own preconceptions regarding the Buddhadharma. GT will be seeing a qualified professional, right? So he is doing the best thing he could do right now. When he finds himself well again, he can rethink his Dharma options. Right now that's not his most urgent concern. Seeing a therapist is. Perhaps because you don't know how to recognize some warning signs you don't realize you are on thin ice. So let's just end it here, ok?


Yes, he is seeing a professional, yes he is utilizing western therapy, and yes he's taking medications. Nobody denied him any of these things. Have I not been clear? Have you read what I have written? Buddhism is by definition psychology (studying the mind, looking at the mind, and behavior), and if he somehow can utilize the teachings of Buddhism, not necessarily Tibetan, in combination of western therapy and medications, then it will be useful to him. That's all what I said. Nothing more. I am not here to give him therapy or treatment like I said it is not within my expertise and I don't do such psuedo thing. It is only a discussion. But with his conditions, right now he might not be able utilize Buddhist teachings. So essentially, I was saying Buddhist teachings can be beneficial to people like GT, so not necessarily focusing on GT. However, the majority opinion of Tantrayana practitioners is he is not suited for this vehicle right not. I don't object to this. I am saying he could benefit from other form, but given his conditions right now he might not. So my discussion is not exclusively about GT, but rather people who experience similar conditions or symptoms to GT that they could benefit from Buddhist teachings and by definition is psychology itself. I said could because it depends on the individual, he/she might not find Buddhist teaching helpful. So what I say does not necessarily reflect how the person sees things. In conclusion:just a thought...there are possibilities and alternatives. Ok I am not here to treat him or offer therapy but offering a thought that is different from the usual thought of Tantrayana practitioners on this forum in regarding to people who experience similar to GT.

Am I being clear enough?

Censorship is such a big issue here?
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby Indrajala » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:14 am

Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:Depression. Then rage. Then depression.

I forgot why I bother with the Dharma. I was never in it in the first place. I have no refuge.

Listening to music all the time. To hell with practice. I can't generate a single kind thought. I never connected with my practice.

Vengeful fantasies, thoughts of causing trouble and suicide. But I don't dare to jump.

Monday I'm seeing a new pdoc.

Wrote on my Facebook "frak this world. Just frak it."

Just frak it.


Gyaltsen, I think it is in your best interest to seek out professional medical aid as soon as possible. You need to explain this to someone trained in suicide counselling. While you will have the sympathies of people on this forum, we're not qualified to really help you in any serious way.

I really hope you can find some peace of mind. Again, I think you need to seek proper care.
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby Indrajala » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:17 am

Okay, folks, we need to settle this down.

Agree to disagree if we must.
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby Gyaltsen Tashi » Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:39 am

My naive faith is not based on commonsense. I expect it to solve all my problems - financial, psychological, spiritual etc. I use Buddhism as a security blanket. I am being childish and naive. I need to face each of these problems on their own terms.

What I find resistance with is to believe that mouthing mantras by itself can get me to be wiser and more compassionate and progress towards enlightenment. Actually, most of the time, what I want is some security in my life - that the next minute I won't be plunged into despair and have no confidence to face life. What I find is that Dharma is another ego-based project for me. And if I keep this attitude, I will not progress and in fact use Dharma to prop up my ego which is already causing me so much trouble and pain.

I'm continuing with my Dharma education but I am not going to say I'm going to practice right away even though I have taken empowerments. Reciting a mala just so that I can call myself a practitioner just doesn't make sense anymore. What makes sense is to recite the mantras when you open your heart to it, and if I find I cannot do that, then it doesn't make sense to just mouth the mantras. Maybe I'm just lazy. I don't know. Maybe I'm making excuses. But if I could only recite one Vajra Guru Mantra a day genuinely, then that's that. If I want to sing it, then I sing it. That would be more than I could manage on most days when I just don't have a Dharma view, lost in some mood swing or depression. Or I don't make time for the Dharma, because it reeks of hypocrisy for me, because I'm not even supporting myself. Or I'm just too damned lazy. No excuse for that last one.

Over the years I have collected enough reading and audio material through my pocket money and through free distribution materials to last me many years. Yet I have yet to make a dent in it. Even though I don't have work, I don't have enough time between my mood swings, my downtime, and moments of wretchedness, and my little commitments. Also I don't have a guide or a trusted friend. I need Dharma to be relevant to my life and to help me.

Even the Dharma I kinda know intellectually is too difficult for me to keep to. Like these teachings - I've broken every one of them:

http://www.singaporedudjomdharmahouse.o ... dvise.html

Thoughts of suicide are always there as background noise. The world sometimes feels overwhelming and that's why I've built this castle around me to protect myself and I don't want to venture out. Even then, I am challenged by people who want to take advantage of me or see me as not living a normal life. I have fantasies of going to the US to buy guns or be in a hospital to be euthanized and donate all my organs. I think maybe if I donate my organs, it is at least a virtuous act.

I need to find work but I don't feel safe with people or out in the world. I thought if I collect enough mantras, these things will take care of themselves. Hasn't happened yet. I feel unsafe putting myself out in the world. I think reciting Verses of the Eight Noble Auspicious Ones etc, I'll be protected but actually isn't that a theistic viewpoint? It doesn't work either, because adverse, horrible things just happen.

OK, now, I still have my temple volunteering which I am keeping sporadically, my wushu I have taken a break from because of mood swings. I volunteering as a translator with a temple. I need to build my identity as a worthwhile person, and not a "Dharma bum". I will slowly put my foot into tutoring.

There's no one and nothing to catch me if I fall. Not Dharma. Not the Buddhas. That's why I don't even have refuge. How could I carry on on this path?
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby Fu Ri Shin » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:05 am

Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:How could I carry on on this path?


My advice, Gyaltsen, is to not worry too incredibly much about the Dharma at this moment. It's clear to me that you take it seriously and you needn't worry that putting it down for the most part will make you a bad practitioner or person. We all have episodes of treating the Teachings like a "security blanket" and such.

Your focus at the moment should be your psycho-physiological well-being, with the help of professionals. If you feel that in your current state the notion of your practice or study is too overwhelming, just drop it. The Teachings will still be here when you're ready to study and practice them more intensely.

If you feel you are in need of any extra support, feel free to send me a private message.
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby Gyaltsen Tashi » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:33 am

I think the energetics of my body is all messed up by the antipsychotic Olanzapine, the 5-6 cups of coffee I need to keep awake every day, the junk food I eat when the food cravings from mood swings or medication comes up, medication-induced metabolic problems, obesity and through losing my seed.

I had three bouts of excessive sleep since my first posted. I slept for 3-4 days before being rescued by Korean Ginseng, which is so expensive. I don't think I can afford to take it all the time, but otherwise I risk losing days to excessive sleep.

One week ago, when I was rescued by Korean Ginseng from a bout of sleep, I was happy again and I had no issue with practice except not overdoing it. At least one mala of Vajra Guru Mantra posed no issue. It seemed strange that I had all that angst over practice but that was what I felt at that time.

I seemed a whole lot of my problems can be solved with Korean Ginseng, my low mood, my sleepiness, my lack of motivation, my laziness etc. at least for the week I was taking it. Is it really an energetics issue if Korean ginseng had such a dramatic effect? What I can do to overcome this energetics issue besides keep using Korean Ginseng? I have learnt some qigong and will continue doing it before my daily exercise.
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby Gyaltsen Tashi » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:45 am

How to use these disturbing emotions on the path? Username, you said rage is great. I don't get it. I didn't get the Led Zeppelin song either.

I was reading Chogyam Trungpa's "Smile at Fear" and it seems to speak to my experience.

"Sometimes fear expresses itself in complete cowardice....You begin to lose all the reference points that normally anchor your existence....Such fear is not necessarily problematic. It is like an attack of sneezing. It comes and goes. However, you have to study your fear....Fearlessness arises out of understanding fear. Step by step, you begin to understand why you are terrified of nonexistence, and at last you begin to understand fearlessness...."
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby username » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:15 pm

It's simple, you had lots of false guilt trips about not practicing and emerging rage is a good sign of overcoming unfounded self blame. As I said before the motivation for dharma should be the 2 bodhicittas and your recovery is now your path in a very real and fundamental and profound way. Also as I mentioned before my friend who overcame your condition found food regimes affected him greatly after years of various doctors, alternatives and self tests by temporary withdrawls. He now avoids certain foods which he has allergies to, has limited amounts of others at certain times and has healthy observed set daily routines. All by testing himself. Hope the new psychy is good or at least a better doc. List your dietary history and condition in a new topic in Tibetan medicine forum in detail and Namdrol will help. I was told increasing the sense of empathy helped my friend though he is not a buddhist and I never talk to him about such things. Structuring your creative activities so you make progress, even if slow at times, is always helpful. Best wishes to you and the doc.
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby Gyaltsen Tashi » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:57 am

Hi,

I seem to be lost. Lost my bearings. Lost my references. I need help re-establishing the view, which I didn't have in the first place, otherwise I wouldn't feel so lost, fearful and sad. I have thought little about practice and have dropped it for a month at least.

I seem to come to practice with wrong motivations. Mainly when I am feeling vulnerable and scared, I would seek protection. I recite "Verses of the 8 Noble Auspicious Ones" because of what it promises. "those who recite will....etc". Same for Lama Chenno and Vajra Guru Mantra. There's yearning. There's longing. But maybe it's all selfish. I'm mostly thinking of this life. Partly because I don't even have the capability to earn my own keep and create conditions for this life. Even then, I think it is still attachment to this life, because if everything goes well, maybe I'll forget about practice also.

I read "Cutting through Spiritual Materialism" and it's like I better give up because whatever I think and practice is wrong. I don't know how to start.

I am prepared to spend time re-establishing the view. Everything I've done so far is useless. Need to gain real confidence on the path.

Any advice? Thanks :bow:
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby catmoon » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:14 am

ahhh..... i see.



Time for metta meditation. The stages are laid out here: http://www.wildmind.org/metta

Don't rush the meditation. Take at least a month to work up to the last stage of the meditation, more if you need it. This is not a meditation that will benefit you if you rush to the final stage.

The idea I have is that you are getting too self involved, and need to look outwards, beyond that, so you can once again see the horizon and re-orient yourself.

Give it a whirl, let me know how it goes. Namaste.

ps it is very much worth doing the guided meditations on that site.
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby Heruka » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:54 am

tourists.

:coffee:
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby wisdom » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:54 am

Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:I seem to come to practice with wrong motivations. Mainly when I am feeling vulnerable and scared, I would seek protection. I recite "Verses of the 8 Noble Auspicious Ones" because of what it promises. "those who recite will....etc". Same for Lama Chenno and Vajra Guru Mantra. There's yearning. There's longing. But maybe it's all selfish. I'm mostly thinking of this life.


This is my two cents.

Your motivation for practicing Buddhism is to eliminate suffering, seems about right to me! Its not selfish, every being wants to end suffering and enjoy happiness. The yearning can be good as it can be a strong motivator to not only practice but also to study. Yet that energy can also be bad when it creates attachments and high expectations. Yet equally true is that when we abandon high expectations, sometimes we take the opposite view and begin to think "I can never do this! Its not for me!". So the trick is to learn to use our yearning to motivate us to practice and to cultivate enjoying the practices for their own sake and the benefits they have on us in the here and now. These benefits accumulate over time, and while its not always possible for us to see our own development as it happens to us, one day we wake up and realize we've taken a step.

Confidence is built by setting reasonably challenging goals for ourselves and then making them happen. By reasonably challenging I mean something you can actually do, but requires at least a small amount of effort on our part. Each time we do this we can see that we can do it, and so feel confident to do it again. We can even increase our efforts as time goes on.

I remember when I tried to be vegetarian the first time. I just quit eating meat one day without any plan or knowledge of how I was going to go about it. The result was that within a week I was emaciated and had a headache. The reason it happened was because there was more to it than just not eating meat. I also had to change when I made food because I had to make it at home, since I also had to stop going out so much, this meant my whole time schedule was rearranged. This in turn meant I had more dishes and kitchen upkeep to worry about, and I had to be more conscious of what I was eating so I was getting a more balanced diet. So before I could even think of being a vegetarian, I had to learn to keep my kitchen clean and keep food in my house and actually cook it. Once that pattern was established, then I could begin to phase out meat and begin to figure out what kinds of vegetarian foods my body wanted. Once I figured that out, I was able to stop eating meat all together, and the whole process was rather painless when I went about it using smaller steps.

In Buddhism you might be familiar with the idea of Samskaras. It basically means impressions. They are habits, mental patterns, ways of thinking and seeing the world, physical patterns of how we carry ourselves (which arise from a mental imprint) and so forth. These don't vanish overnight. Its like a piece of bed foam. If you walk up to it and poke it once, you see a little point in the foam and it goes away within a few moments. If you shove your fist into it, it takes longer. If you sleep on it for 3 years, there is a huge dent it in for days, weeks, or maybe even months. So each time we assert an action like Catmoons good suggestion of practicing a meditation centered on loving kindness, at first it might not seem to have an effect. It might even feel like a farce. You think "i'm not feeling very loving". Yet whenever you strive to do it, you create the impression of loving kindness and deplete the impression of anger and rage. Eventually loving kindness really does start to happen, then it starts to happen automatically. Such an understanding that these things are gradual, when put into practice with that understanding, is an example of Right Effort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path#Right_effort

So basically taking things one day at a time. We don't know what the future brings. Future expectation and past regret are two of the primary causes of sorrow. Our expectations not being met, we become upset, angry, or feel hopeless. Our past arising to confront us, we begin to hate ourselves for our actions, and so forth.

But all we have is now. If we decide to be a Buddhist today, then we are a Buddhist today. If we wake up and do it again tomorrow, still we are a Buddhist today.
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby heart » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:31 am

Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:Hi,

I seem to be lost. Lost my bearings. Lost my references. I need help re-establishing the view, which I didn't have in the first place, otherwise I wouldn't feel so lost, fearful and sad. I have thought little about practice and have dropped it for a month at least.

I seem to come to practice with wrong motivations. Mainly when I am feeling vulnerable and scared, I would seek protection. I recite "Verses of the 8 Noble Auspicious Ones" because of what it promises. "those who recite will....etc". Same for Lama Chenno and Vajra Guru Mantra. There's yearning. There's longing. But maybe it's all selfish. I'm mostly thinking of this life. Partly because I don't even have the capability to earn my own keep and create conditions for this life. Even then, I think it is still attachment to this life, because if everything goes well, maybe I'll forget about practice also.

I read "Cutting through Spiritual Materialism" and it's like I better give up because whatever I think and practice is wrong. I don't know how to start.

I am prepared to spend time re-establishing the view. Everything I've done so far is useless. Need to gain real confidence on the path.

Any advice? Thanks :bow:


Yes, when you plant a seed it will take a while before the plant appears. Do the seven-line prayer many many times while visualizing Guru Rinpoche in front of you very close by. Open your heart to him, confess your lack of motivation and express your wish to gain confidence in the path to him from your heart again and again. This prayer has very great blessing.

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?titl ... ine_Prayer

/magnus
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby Gyaltsen Tashi » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:40 am

I’d like to share a bit about my faith (or lack of it.)

I came to Buddhism when in a deep depression after a failed start at a teaching career. I was devastated I was mostly sleeping my time away. Then, I started reading free distribution materials and they gave me a little hope again. I was mostly reading Chinese Mahayana and fpmt books. Nothing much about tantra yet. Only stories of holding back the setting sun and Tara miracles in the fpmt books. I developed a very naïve faith in these miracles and I think I never progressed beyond that.

I decided to be in Buddhism by accident. I read that Brahma paid respects to Sariputta, and like her mother, I read and thought “If Brahma paid respect to a disciple of the Buddha, what about the Buddha himself?” It is a naïve faith, like a game of “Whose bigger? Your god or mine?”

In 2005, by accident, a grand puja event by Palyul Nyingma was held in an open field near my house. I saw the long line of people waiting to see HH Penor Rinpoche and wondered what was the big deal. I cajoled my mother and we decided to join in the empowerment out of curiosity. It was a nice but awkward experience. The kindly figure of HH Penor Rinpoche made a deep impression on me. And the chant of “Ami Dewa Hri” rang in my ears, though I don’t know what it meant, or what an empowerment meant. I remember I was though quite taken aback by the full prostrations when HH Penor Rinpoche left.

Then I got sick was admitted in the psychiatric hospital. There I met the first Vajrayanist friend I know, another patient. I recounted my experience and my being taken aback by the full prostrations. He said that’s because the Rinpoche was a great being. I didn’t tell him who it was, as I couldn’t remember. And I believed him wholeheartedly. Although we met at a mental hospital. I only had a naïve faith.

After I got out of hospital or before I got in, I can’t remember, I visited the Palyul centre and asked to see a monk. I was met by Khenpo Jurme Kunsang Rinpoche. I told him I had lot of strange and troubling things in my life. He listened to my story nodded knowingly. He asked me which Dharma centres I have been and nodded knowingly. I don’t know what he knows actually, but again I had a very naïve faith. He told me I collected a lot of Dharma, but have left it as uncooked rice. I think that is still very true today. I pointed to the wrathful deities and said it was the first time I saw these. He just nodded knowingly. He said he’ll do prayers for me. He said I can come to pujas and warned “No politics!”

I came to be in another centre, where I stayed for a few years, until they didn’t welcome me anymore. I was inducted into the rituals and forms of Vajrayana and read “Words of My Perfect Teacher”, but these seemed to be a dream now. I did work, attended pujas and volunteered but in the end I wasn’t welcome. Sometimes it is hard to believe that there can be any fruit of practice.I have only Dharma stories to count on. Like auspicious rain or rainbows. And stories of rainbow death. Stuff like that.

I also participated in two 100 million mani retreats because the organizers advertised that participating is like having a wish-fulfilling jewel. I thought for that I’ll surely join in. Another instance of my naïve faith, which perhaps cannot stand the test of time, because obviously life after a mani retreat is still as tough.

As I had been out of work for some time, I took the time to read, do practices and explore. It was the life of a Dharma bum. I attended tsogs, Tara pujas, did some ngondro and whatever else at my centre. Though I was inspired to do practices and do Dharma work and put all my very naïve faith in the Dharma, it was untested faith. I was withdrawing from life while seeking the protection of Dharma and not wanting to venture out. Pretty much nothing changed after a few years. I am still full of anger and lust, and probably no closer to the kindness and confidence I see in the late HH Penor Rinpoche.

I am ambivalent like that sometimes. Like I don’t have unwavering faith in the HH Dalai Lama. My mother is always speaking up against him and Vajrayana every day, and asks me to give it up. She’s a PRC sympathizer and counts China as her homeland. By my own judgment, I also find the HH Dalai Lama’s thoughts and actions to be simple-minded and not sufficient. Will I be banned from this forum now?

I don’t have the knowledge to make a judgment in these complex matters like China-Tibetan politics, and most of my knowledge comes from books or forums like this. I met a Tibetan tour guide and he tried to tell my mother Dalai Lama is good, but she isn’t convinced. I can’t point to any Sangha friends or to myself and say anyone shows the fruits of practice. We are still deeply in samsara.

Then there are the scandals, some of them sexual, involving high-ranking Rinpoches. Articles like “The Dark Side of Buddhist America”. And controversial books. And politics. I only have a simple faith, based on the kindly figure of HH Penor Rinpoche. If you ask me what I base my faith on, I’ll say the kindness I see on HH Penor Rinpoche face, and my faith that when I sing Lama Chenno, he knows. That’s all I have to count on. Is that like believing in Santa Claus? I don’t know how to handle these realities, politics and scandals. Or the depressions, anger, lust that overwhelms any accidental practice I do.

I’ll stop here. This sounds like another of my pointless rants. Thanks for listening.
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Re: Sad, sob story

Postby muni » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:14 pm

Deleted my post in which I expressed to see teaching in this, which i still do. Maybe not important here.
then the advice I got was not to see Dharma as a medicine for temporary relief but to completely trust in order to undo all suffering.
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