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How did you understand non-self? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

How did you understand non-self?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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zavk
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Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby zavk » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:59 am

With metta,
zavk

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Ben
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Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby Ben » Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:14 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

rowyourboat
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Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:48 am

Hi Zavk, Retro, Ben

Seeing anicca seems to be the most commonest way of understanding anatta in your experience and mine.

Ben, did seeing dukkha help in your understanding of anatta? I'm curious as this is how most suttas would phrase it. Anicca-->dukkha-->anatta. However I have yet to come across anyone who understood it quite that way. I suspected that this was because of the understanding of the atta/self was fused with it being pleasant (the radiant samadhi 'self') of ancient India. However we now approach it through other means.

with muditha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

rowyourboat
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Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:50 am

Hello 'reductor.

I loved your explanation of how you understood anatta. Permission to post it anonymously to another site please? :smile:

with metta

RYB
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Ben
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Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby Ben » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:40 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: ben.dhammawhee[email protected]..

Reductor
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Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby Reductor » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:17 pm


rowyourboat
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Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:37 pm

Hi Ben

Thanks for the reply. I should be clear in my questions: did your understanding of dukkha lead to (proximate cause!) your understanding of anatta, or was it something else?

with metta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Ben
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Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby Ben » Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:21 am

I believe so, yes.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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retrofuturist
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Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:27 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ben
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Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby Ben » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:56 am

Beautiful!
Thanks mate.

B
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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zavk
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby zavk » Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:35 am

Last edited by zavk on Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
With metta,
zavk

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Ben
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby Ben » Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:49 am

Hi Zavk
I'm so glad that you posted the above. I have had much the same thoughts.
metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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effort
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Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby effort » Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:45 am

i'm not experienced like some known practitioners here but as much as i feel relax with annata still i cant connect with annica.

Freawaru
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Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby Freawaru » Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:58 am


rowyourboat
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:01 pm

Hi Zavk, Ben, Retro

Today I was listening to a sermon in Sinhalese by a skilled monk- he spoke of how the eye brings us nothing but dukkha and yet we consider some of it to be dukkha and the other bits sukkha (pleasant/satisfactory). He went on to portray the whole body and all mental states as nothing but a mass of suffering. I had a glimpse of anatta- because something so vile and fit to be discarded as this could ever be considered as me. There was this incompatibility- like oil and water. At our depths we wouldn't identify with something so foul, as myself -'egodystonic'. This leads me to the understanding that the depth of unsatisfactoriness/uselessness of it all, which the Buddha was talking about was quite deep, in order to get a glimpse of anatta in the manner mentioned in the suttas (which is often anicca-->dukkha-->anatta). In that sense the world 'revulsion' (nibbida) fits in very well.

I have heard a few people say that they did not know at what point they understood anatta. Similarly others are quite clear of the point that they understood it- because it was a bit of a surprise/shock- or a serendipitous finding. I guess this is why the Buddha never said 'folks this is the method and technique you must do to understand anatta' but laid out the whole satipatthana to explore.

Retro- love the Phena sutta. Talk about emptiness!

with metta

Matheesha
Last edited by rowyourboat on Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:02 pm

Hi effort

Interesting! Did you just hear the teaching and think 'yeah, this makes sense!' or was there any difficulty accepting it at all?

with metta

RYB
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Ben
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby Ben » Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:02 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
effort
Posts: 222
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Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby effort » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:41 am


Freawaru
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Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby Freawaru » Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:06 pm


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effort
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Re: How did you understand non-self?

Postby effort » Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:51 pm



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