Saichō's Monastic Reforms

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Malcolm » Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:34 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
Indrajala
Posts: 6312
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Indrajala » Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:52 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Malcolm » Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:22 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
Seishin
Former staff member
Posts: 1783
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:53 am
Contact:

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Seishin » Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:42 pm

This may be a little off topic;... because of Saicho's reforms to ordanation and subsiquent other changes made to Japanese Buddhism over generations, would that mean it's better not to follow Japanese Buddhism?

Seishin.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Malcolm » Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:45 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
Indrajala
Posts: 6312
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Indrajala » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:03 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

User avatar
Indrajala
Posts: 6312
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Indrajala » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:29 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 8493
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby DGA » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:15 am


User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Malcolm » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:38 am





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Malcolm » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:44 am





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
Seishin
Former staff member
Posts: 1783
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:53 am
Contact:

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Seishin » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:46 am


User avatar
Indrajala
Posts: 6312
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Indrajala » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:48 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

User avatar
Indrajala
Posts: 6312
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Indrajala » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:11 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

User avatar
Seishin
Former staff member
Posts: 1783
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:53 am
Contact:

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Seishin » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:36 am

Thank you for your reply Huseng. Sadly, I don't live in America, I live in a small village in the UK. The nearest Buddhist group to me is Tendai, which is still a 30 min drive in good traffic. That being said, I had attended a few other groups before Tendai because of some silly, long forgotten prejudice I had towards Japanese Buddhism. That was all quickly forgotten when I joined the Tendai group and never looked back since. The nearest Taiwanese/Chinese/Tibetan centre is too far for me to travel to, especially on my wage. So you see, the form of Buddhism which you believe is the least accessable is actually the most accessable for me.

I know Japanese Buddhism is in decline both in numbers and in substance, in Japan. But in the UK and US it is growing rapidly, and those in charge of spreading it (both from Japan and the West) are doing their best to make sure what is being taught is of top quality. Materials are being translated as quickly as possible, but this takes time, as I'm sure you'll agree. It is my hope that Tendai and other forms of Japanese Buddhism will continue to grow in the west. Maybe one day it won't be known as "Japanese Buddhism", either way, I don't see Tendai Shu and the people like my teacher and Jikan as a lost cause.

Gassho,
Seishin

:focus:

User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Astus » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:46 am

A side note:

In Japanese schools they possess the proper doctrinal-practical transmission of the different schools, like in the case of Zen, but because they not necessarily live up to it, they're false. Again, even if they live up to the moral standards because they don't have the right set of rules and transmission they are false. So we could say that neither transmission nor the reality of practice makes one proper Dharma follower. Or it is that if we want we can view it as all right, if we want we can view it as totally wrong. That's because we can argue on the side of either ideal purity or practical situation. But I think what should be asked is the purpose of the whole training and whether a training used can generate the desired results.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



User avatar
jikai
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan.
Contact:

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby jikai » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:38 am

I can understand many expressing the view that Japanese Buddhism is not only in decline but has for a long time been 'illegitimate' to some extent based on their having discarded the Ssu Fen Lu (Vinaya) precepts- particularly since the Meiji period from which time onwards no secret has been made regarding the marriage of the Priesthood and various other infractions such as eating meat and possessing property.

However, with great respect, I ask that we not become too entangled with the nomenclature we as the Buddhists of today have inherited but that we remember not to lose the content. I am aware that many Japanese Priests have inherited their Priestly 'profession' BUT, there are many, who I've met both within and outside Japan who do uphold their respective Buddhist traditions ensuring that a high standard is kept.

Indeed I, as an aspiring priest in the early days of my training, do at times fear that not taking the Vinaya and remaining celibate may be 'infractions' on the path- my personal way of dealing with such concerns is the vow that if my partner and I seperate, I will indeed become celibate, and if possible take the Vinaya (while remaining within Tendai).

But as Mahayanists, is not our banner "to develop the enlightened mind, in whatever form it may take" ? Vimalakirti although not ordained,would constitute a 'proficient and worthy' teacher would he not?

Particularly in the West, it is very likely that the Japanese 'monastic tradition' with its acceptance of marriage etc; is and will become more 'palatable' to the aspirant Buddhist than the more traditional monastic tradition. Although I personally (although a member of the Japanese Priestly tradition) view taking the Vinaya as part of the ultimate and desired end, I can't help but feel that atleast in the West, the Japanese traditions provide for us, a Hoben/Fangbian/Upaya/ Skillful means through which that ultimate goal may be approached.

Our training and practices are certainly not simply 'dress-up'. They require true dedication and are certainly not an 'ordinary' existence (which would be much easier). Although I have my doubts about whether or not it is right for me to call myself a priest (considering the title in Japanese does not differ from monk) In my tradition (Tendai) I have always been taught to respect the 'enlightened mind' no matter where I find it in a way I have not experienced from many other more 'legitimate' Sangha. I think we, in the Japanese Buddhist community have experienced alot of resentment for our stance on monastic discipline. As I said, I one day hope to take the Vinaya,but, I have found the Tendai tradition to be full of dedicated, teachers of the Buddhist tradition. If we talk as Buddhist of not practicing ritual at the expense of substance then perhaps we should cease being too connected to the nomenclature and remember what truly makes a Buddhist disciple: the awakening of Bodhicitta.
"There are no seperate dharma's in the Three Realms. There is only the operation of the one mind."
"Whoever wishes to benefit beings ought to establish teachings that fit their capacities, expound the dharma in accordance with their capacities, and match the doctrines to them"

User avatar
Indrajala
Posts: 6312
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Indrajala » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:00 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

User avatar
Indrajala
Posts: 6312
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Indrajala » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:03 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

User avatar
Indrajala
Posts: 6312
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Indrajala » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:06 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Saichō's Monastic Reforms

Postby Malcolm » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:54 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa


Return to “Tendai”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests