Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Postby conebeckham » Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:35 pm

^agreed! :smile:
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Postby Jinzang » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:51 am

Nitartha isn't exactly pushing the book in the marketplace, considering the prerequisites that have to be met before you can buy it.


After Lama Phurbu Tashi looked at the restrictions he wondered if he could meet them. So I found the original Tibetan on the Dharma Downloads site, printed it out, and gave it to him. So the text is only restricted if you can't read Tibetan.
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Postby conebeckham » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:33 pm

True, dat.
It's easily found in the original Tibetan.
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Postby Sönam » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:27 pm

I would also recommand "Mahamudra and Related Instructions - Core Teachings of The Kagyu Schools" in the collection The Library of Tibetan Classicals (translation Peter Alan Roberts) which is a compilation of texts. It includes :

- A String of Pearls (Gampopa)
- The Unrivales Instructions of Shang Rinpoché (Shönu La)
- The Ultimate Supreme Path of the Mahamudra (Lama Shang)
- A Record of Mahamudra Instructions (Drukchen Pema Karpo)
- Instructions for The Mahamudra Innate Union (Karmapa Rangjung Dorjé)
- Prayer for The Definitive Meaning, the Mahamudra (Karmapa Rangjung Dorjé)
- Oral Transmission of the Supreme Siddhas - A Commentary on the Prayer for the Definitive Meaning (Situ Tenpai Nyinjé)
- The Bright Torch : The Perfect Illumination of the True Meaning of the Mahamudra, the Essence of All the Dharma (Tselé Natsok Rangdröl)
- The Quintessence of Nectar : Instructions for the Practice of the Six Dharmas of Naropa (Shamarpa Chökyi Wangchuk)
- The Single Viewpoint : A Root Text (Sherap Jungné) ... in four parts.
- Light Rays from the Jewel of the Excellent Teaching (Dakpo Tash Namgyal)

The whole collection is a must ...

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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Postby Greg » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:55 pm

I'd also like to put a plug in for Pointing Out the Great Way: The Stages of Meditation in Mahamudra by Daniel P. Brown (http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/display ... n=&image=1)

It's academically rigorous yet oriented toward the practitioner, a survey of all of the important texts of the tradition. Really an impressive and very useful piece of work.
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Postby Astus » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:24 pm

Greg wrote:I'd also like to put a plug in for Pointing Out the Great Way: The Stages of Meditation in Mahamudra by Daniel P. Brown (http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/display ... n=&image=1)

It's academically rigorous yet oriented toward the practitioner, a survey of all of the important texts of the tradition. Really an impressive and very useful piece of work.


I've pondered on buying it but his relationship with Ken Wilber eventually deterred me.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Postby Greg » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:40 pm

I know he co-edited a book with Wilber (back in 1986), but I'm not sure how deep the relationship goes. In any case, he doesn't particularly bring any sort of syncretism into the book above, so I don't imagine you'll find it too much of an issue.
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Postby Jinzang » Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:02 am

I just checked and Peter Alan Roberts' book is now available in epub format.
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Postby mindyourmind » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:35 pm

Greg wrote:I'd also like to put a plug in for Pointing Out the Great Way: The Stages of Meditation in Mahamudra by Daniel P. Brown (http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/display ... n=&image=1)

It's academically rigorous yet oriented toward the practitioner, a survey of all of the important texts of the tradition. Really an impressive and very useful piece of work.


I've got that lying there in the "to read" bundle, it looks like a good addition to the library.
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Postby Jnana » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:28 am

mindyourmind wrote:
Greg wrote:I'd also like to put a plug in for Pointing Out the Great Way: The Stages of Meditation in Mahamudra by Daniel P. Brown (http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/display ... n=&image=1)

It's academically rigorous yet oriented toward the practitioner, a survey of all of the important texts of the tradition. Really an impressive and very useful piece of work.


I've got that lying there in the "to read" bundle, it looks like a good addition to the library.

Some of the translated passages in Brown's book are not very precise. IMO it's better to rely on the classic texts, especially the new one: Mahāmudrā and Related Instructions: Core Teachings of the Kagyü Schools.
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Postby mindyourmind » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:25 am

Jnana wrote:
mindyourmind wrote:
Greg wrote:I'd also like to put a plug in for Pointing Out the Great Way: The Stages of Meditation in Mahamudra by Daniel P. Brown (http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/display ... n=&image=1)

It's academically rigorous yet oriented toward the practitioner, a survey of all of the important texts of the tradition. Really an impressive and very useful piece of work.


I've got that lying there in the "to read" bundle, it looks like a good addition to the library.

Some of the translated passages in Brown's book are not very precise. IMO it's better to rely on the classic texts, especially the new one: Mahāmudrā and Related Instructions: Core Teachings of the Kagyü Schools.


Thanks, I have that also (I am reading it very slowly), and will compare the two. From skimming through a few of Brown's pages he seems to want to modernize his approach, to somehow make things easier to understand - nearly a condescending type of translation. But maybe I am being unfair, I should read the book first.

The "Core Teachings" is just a monster of a book, absolutely brilliant.
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Postby Jnana » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:43 am

mindyourmind wrote:From skimming through a few of Brown's pages he seems to want to modernize his approach, to somehow make things easier to understand - nearly a condescending type of translation. But maybe I am being unfair, I should read the book first.

Brown's book is worth reading, but the source texts are translated better by Roberts.

mindyourmind wrote:The "Core Teachings" is just a monster of a book, absolutely brilliant.

Yes, brilliant.
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Postby username » Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:11 am

numerous openly hidden mahamudra pointing outs in simple language in each of these books:
http://www.amazon.com/Chogyam-Trungpa/e ... 425&sr=1-1
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Postby Jinzang » Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:23 pm

What Bardor Tulku said is certainly true: teachers are giving pointing out instructions all the time. For example, I took notes at Nubpa Rinpoche's teaching on the Uttaratantra Shastra, and there are pointing out instructions in it, if you read it closely.
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Postby Karma Tashi G. » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:38 pm

conebeckham wrote:Both Ngedon Gyamtso and Chakchen Dawai Ozer are "manuals," and both do present the sort of "question and answer" method. Ngedon Gyamtso, however, is the more complete of the two in this regard. The aim is to help the teacher facilitate the student's exploration. And, as someone said, "Dakpo Tashi Namgyal's "Clarifying" is more explicit, and "contains the correct answers," so to speak.

The reason some of these texts are restricted is because certain "catch-phrases" or "answers" can be learned, and there is the potential pitfall of a student answering questions by rote, or from a position of "intellect only," and not from experience. Knowing the answers can actually get in the way of finding them out for oneself. Though sometimes not.


There is that problem but there is another very serious problem. Learning of a mental state acts as a wall to mind/bodily experiencing it. Also some actual experiences are very very very powerful and can be frightening if one does not have a teacher to resort to! Learning by book is better done after serious teacher-guided study I think! I have lots and lots of books and use them like whisky bottles to avoid practice-that is another danger of books!

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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Postby conebeckham » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:46 am

As a fan of books, (and of whisky), I appreciate all your sentiments. :twothumbsup:

Frankly, I like Bokar Rinpoche's little condensation of Ngedon Gyamtso the best, because I think it's doesn't give away the farm, but is a nice tool to help you ask yourself appropriate questions. "Opening the Door to Certainty."
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Postby Karma Tashi G. » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:23 pm

conebeckham wrote:As a fan of books, (and of whisky), I appreciate all your sentiments. :twothumbsup:

Frankly, I like Bokar Rinpoche's little condensation of Ngedon Gyamtso the best, because I think it's doesn't give away the farm, but is a nice tool to help you ask yourself appropriate questions. "Opening the Door to Certainty."



Bokar Rinpoche is a very high lama and I have seen that little book! I am now in my 65th year and reading long books, makes me fall asleep!

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