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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:45 pm 
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Hi,
Does anyone know if the Dudjom Tersar is contained in the Rinchen Terzod ?
Also looking for the complete indexes of both.

Thank you,
Sumir


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:51 pm 
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vajraheart wrote:
Hi,
Does anyone know if the Dudjom Tersar is contained in the Rinchen Terzod ?
Also looking for the complete indexes of both.

Thank you,
Sumir


No -- Dudjom Tersar is not in Rinchen Terzö. The complete indexs to both can be found at tbrc.org in the nyingma section

http://www.tbrc.org/#library_work-O3JW110253JW11050

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:02 pm 
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That was fast, forgotten what fast is being out here. Thanks Namdrol, much appreciated.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:14 pm 
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Kongtrul wanted Dudjom Tersar in Rinchen Terzo so Khyentse Wangpo sent a message to Dudjom Lingpa requesting that. Dudjom Lingpa replied Dudjom Tersar will not be in Terzo but where Rinchen Terzo is given, Dudjom Tersar will be present also.

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Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:19 pm 
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username wrote:
Kongtrul wanted Dudjom Tersar in Rinchen Terzo so Khyentse Wangpo sent a message to Dudjom Lingpa requesting that. Dudjom Lingpa replied Dudjom Tersar will not be in Terzo but where Rincchen Terzo is given, Dudjom Tersar will be present also.


Intersting , I was wondering why it wasn't included.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:18 pm 
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Basically, RTD antedates Dudjom Tersar.
I think Dudjom Lingpa was anticipating all
the Termas that H. H. Jigdral Yeshe Dorje
would reveal.

Also, I heard Dungse Thinley Norbu Rinpoche say
that Tsokyi Dorje has exactly the same meaning
as the Rigdzin Dupa; Khandro T'huktik has exactly
the same meaning as Yumkha Dechen Gyalmo.

For that reason, DT can be understood as being a
condensed version of Longchen Nyingtik. That is
not meant to imply they are the same, but it may
explain what DL meant when he said DT is there
when RTD is given.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:29 pm 
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ngodrup wrote:
...but it may
explain what DL meant when he said DT is there
when RTD is given.


Apparently Kongtrul and Khyentse extended in invitation to DL to include his termas in the RT -- he refused, but said that wherever the RT spread, DT wold spread there too.

N

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:38 am 
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Namdrol wrote:


Apparently Kongtrul and Khyentse extended in invitation to DL to include his termas in the RT -- he refused, but said that wherever the RT spread, DT wold spread there too.

N


That's more clear, thank you.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:29 am 
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Yes I believe it was more Dudjom Lingpa giving
an indication that the Tersar would spread very far and wide,
so there was no need to preserve it by adding it to
the Rinchen Terzod. And it is clear that he was right, so far so good.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:02 pm 
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The obvious reason behind the reply was that other major complimentary parts of Dudjom Tersar were yet to come.

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Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:25 pm 
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username wrote:
The obvious reason behind the reply was that other major complimentary parts of Dudjom Tersar were yet to come.



No, that does not make sense. The RT only contains representative transmissions from all the major terma cycles. For example, there are texts in DL's collection of termas which come from the original Dudjom, Khathog Duddul Dorje which are present in the RT, but none of DL's own termas. But when the whole Dudjom tersar is given, and not merely Dudjom Tersar i.e. Dudjom Rinpoche's pure vision cycles, it also includes the transmissions from Duddul Dorje, Dudjom Lingpa, and Dudjom RInpoche.

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How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:04 pm 
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Namdrol wrote:

But when the whole Dudjom tersar is given...


Who holds this these days?.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:17 pm 
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vajraheart wrote:
Namdrol wrote:

But when the whole Dudjom tersar is given...


Who holds this these days?.


Thinley Norbu Rinpoche (Dudjom Rinpoche son) and his sons Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche and Shenpen Dawa Rinpoche, Chatral Rinpoche and many others.

/magnus

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:44 pm 
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Heart, who are the many others? I knew of that the ones you mentioned hold it. I know the Khenpo brothers , maybe Chagdud and the Dudjom yangsis. I should have asked who holds it, is near HP , India, is someone I'd want to recieve it from( and would give it CHatral Rinpoche obviously doesn't), if it turns out my own teacher doesn't have it. I looked around the net for lineage lines, with little luck asides from the obvious names.

thanks


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:14 pm 
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Namdrol wrote:
username wrote:
The obvious reason behind the reply was that other major complimentary parts of Dudjom Tersar were yet to come.



No, that does not make sense. The RT only contains representative transmissions from all the major terma cycles. For example, there are texts in DL's collection of termas which come from the original Dudjom, Khathog Duddul Dorje which are present in the RT, but none of DL's own termas. But when the whole Dudjom tersar is given, and not merely Dudjom Tersar i.e. Dudjom Rinpoche's pure vision cycles, it also includes the transmissions from Duddul Dorje, Dudjom Lingpa, and Dudjom RInpoche.


I just read this and were convinced but a minute later thought it doesn't make sense. Kongtrul wanted the new Dudjom Tersar represented but obviously it is the big missing one as all agree.

There are many, if not the majority of, Nyingma masters who have DT.

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Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:35 pm 
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Who is propegating it ?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:44 pm 
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In Tso Pema there is the Dudjom retreat temple. In NYC his son Shenpen Dawa Rinpoche (Tersar.org) now recovering & also in NE Khenpo Tsewang Rinpoche who was his secretary once (padmasambhava.org).

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Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:39 pm 
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username wrote:
In Tso Pema there is the Dudjom retreat temple. In NYC his son Shenpen Dawa Rinpoche (Tersar.org) now recovering & also in NE Khenpo Tsewang Rinpoche who was his secretary once (padmasambhava.org).

The Nyingma Gompa has no one , unless Bhutanese Dudjom yangsi visits, I live in India and visit my birthplace of wash dc only if I have to, thanks. Quite a bit particular about who I'll take wangs from, to say the least.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:48 pm 
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vajraheart wrote:
username wrote:
In Tso Pema there is the Dudjom retreat temple. In NYC his son Shenpen Dawa Rinpoche (Tersar.org) now recovering & also in NE Khenpo Tsewang Rinpoche who was his secretary once (padmasambhava.org).

The Nyingma Gompa has no one , unless Bhutanese Dudjom yangsi visits, I live in India and visit my birthplace of wash dc only if I have to, thanks. Quite a bit particular about who I'll take wangs from, to say the least.


Best to ask Ontul Rinpoche.

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Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:55 pm 
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username wrote:
vajraheart wrote:
username wrote:
In Tso Pema there is the Dudjom retreat temple. In NYC his son Shenpen Dawa Rinpoche (Tersar.org) now recovering & also in NE Khenpo Tsewang Rinpoche who was his secretary once (padmasambhava.org).

The Nyingma Gompa has no one , unless Bhutanese Dudjom yangsi visits, I live in India and visit my birthplace of wash dc only if I have to, thanks. Quite a bit particular about who I'll take wangs from, to say the least.


Best to ask Ontul Rinpoche.

lol
I've heard of that guy before


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