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the great vegetarian debate - Page 16 - Dhamma Wheel

the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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retrofuturist
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Re: Vegetarian Food

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:20 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Vegetarian Food

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:23 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Vegetarian Food

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:31 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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David N. Snyder
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Diet classifications from omnivore to fruitarian

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:47 pm

The topic here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3612 made me think that it might be good to list all the major types of diets from omnivore to the strict vegan diets:

1. Omnivore - (almost) anything goes, red meat, poultry, fish, veggies, etc.
2. Flexitarianism - A diet that consists primarily of vegetarian food, but includes occasional exceptions for some kinds of meat.
3. Pescetarianism - A diet that is mainly vegetarian but also includes fish and sometimes other seafood.
4. Pollotarianism - A diet that is mainly vegetarian but also includes poultry.
5. Macrobiotic diet: A diet of mostly whole grains and beans. Not all macrobiotics are vegetarians, as some consume fish.
6. Lacto-ovo vegetarianism is a vegetarian diet that permits consumption of animal products such eggs, milk, and honey.
7. Lacto vegetarianism permits milk and dairy products but abstains from eggs.
8. Ovo vegetarianism permits eggs but abstains from milk.
9. Veganism abstains from all animal flesh and animal products, including milk, honey, and eggs.
10. Organic veganism - only organic vegan foods.
11. Su vegetarianism - excludes all animal products as well as vegetables in the allium family (which have the characteristic aroma of onion and garlic): onion, garlic, scallions, leeks, or shallots.
12. Raw veganism is a diet of fresh and uncooked fruit, nuts, seeds, and vegetables.
13. Fruitarianism is a diet of only fruit, nuts, seeds, and other plant matter that can be gathered without harming the plant (many Jains follow this diet).

When you list all of the major diets from omnivore to fruitarian, the typical vegetarian diet of 'lacto-ovo' does not look so extreme; at number 6 out of 13.

The Buddha was somewhere between a flexitarian and a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet, based on what is reported of what he ate in the Tipitaka: http://dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Diet_of_Buddha

Perhaps a new category could be created for monastics and some lay Buddhists:

A diet that consists of eating mostly vegetarian, but with some exceptions when food is offered and graciously accepted. Or when vegetarian foods are chosen and consumed, but may contain animal by-products, but not the main ingredient of the food, such as meat juices, lard, and soup stock. (There may be some meat by-products in the food, but no animal is killed for making the food, the ingredients were added from the 'left-over' items from the meat animals.)

I am mostly vegan myself, but can see where this category may be necessary, especially for some Buddhists who are doing what they can in their environment and don't want to upset the person purchasing and preparing the food.

Not sure what I would call this new category? Perhaps a Three-fold rule flexitarian?
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Re: Vegetarian Food

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:50 pm

I made a new thread to discuss the different diet classifications, from omnivore to fruitarian:

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3645
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Re: Diet classifications from omnivore to fruitarian

Postby Ben » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:41 pm

Hi David

Your list doesn't include Breatharian. They are the peculiar folk who believe they get all their nutrients from the air. Unfortunately, they are not long-lived.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Re: Diet classifications from omnivore to fruitarian

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:45 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Diet classifications from omnivore to fruitarian

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:50 pm

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Re: Diet classifications from omnivore to fruitarian

Postby jcsuperstar » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:01 pm

you forgot freegans
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Diet classifications from omnivore to fruitarian

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:06 pm

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Re: Diet classifications from omnivore to fruitarian

Postby baratgab » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:07 am

"Just as in the great ocean there is but one taste — the taste of salt — so in this Doctrine and Discipline there is but one taste — the taste of freedom"

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Re: Diet classifications from omnivore to fruitarian

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:51 am

Two more at the other end of the scale:
Pure carnivores - not a healthy diet but they live longer than breatharians. :tongue:
Masai diet - blood and milk but not (usually?) meat. I'm not sure about the details.

And another one near the vego end:
Ehretism - vegetarian but strict rules about food combinations e.g. 'mono' meals. I haven't met one for years so maybe they don't live long either. See

:smile:
Kim

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Ben
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Re: Diet classifications from omnivore to fruitarian

Postby Ben » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:00 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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retrofuturist
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Re: Diet classifications from omnivore to fruitarian

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:03 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Buddha's Dancer

Re: Vegetarian Food

Postby Buddha's Dancer » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:05 am


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appicchato
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Re: Vegetarian Food

Postby appicchato » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:34 am

:thumbsup:

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Cittasanto
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Re: Vegetarian Food

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:36 pm

Hi Buddha Dancer,
Where did I use sentient? sentience involves more than having sense organs BTW.

Being can refer to any living thing see the dictionary. and even the definition of what constitutes a life form is up for change.

That comment was addressing another comment about speciesists, and assigning worth to one more than another so on about assigning worth to something because we can relate to it more than another living being.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Buddha's Dancer

Re: Vegetarian Food

Postby Buddha's Dancer » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:29 pm


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m0rl0ck
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Re: Diet classifications from omnivore to fruitarian

Postby m0rl0ck » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:31 pm

You forgot the nagatarians, people for whom everything you eat is wrong.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

seanpdx
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Re: Vegetarian Food

Postby seanpdx » Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:08 pm



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