yogis in france

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yogis in france

Postby alpha » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:12 pm

some while back i have heard someone mentioning on a different forum the fact that in france there are a few practitioners(maybe kagyu) who took vows to remain in retreat for the rest of their life.

can anyone confirm that?
i would really appreciate any info on the subject.

thank you

alpha
Last edited by alpha on Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: yogis in france

Postby ronnewmexico » Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:02 pm

NO offense and I just do not know, but to note, perhaps for your amusement, this struck me as humerous the way it comes together...


who are involved in long life retreat.
and they've been doing so for many years.

My appologies for deviateing from point.

And to add...perhaps my delight is not the most important thing. To add what little I do know, abeit from a layperson with little understaning of such things(so take it with a grain of salt)...Long life ceremonies are relatively common in Kagyu. They are performed by lamas generally for others, and prayers and such may be found at the initiation and conclusion of every temple meeting. There is a specific ceremony for this as well.

Now long life or to extend ones life beyond the natural may be preferred on a personal basis for only one reason. That is it is thought necessary by a very advanced practitioner, to have such a extension to attain a particular degree of enlightenment. This being not generally available with a conventional life span. So on a personal basis it would be performed only for oneself for only this purpose. Normally such ceremonies are done exclusively for others not oneself.

Now to find a group doing this for themselves....that seemingly would not be possible as once having done that thing they would be working actively through means at attaining enlightenment not at extending life span.

To find a group doing this daily for others....I'd suspect any monestary would be doing this thing in prayer daily and quite often in ceremony. HHDL is a common subject for this as is the 17th Karmapa, and certain teachers of Kagyu such as Kenchen Thragu Ripoche and of course anyones personal lama.

Life long retreatants.....certainly there are many from many different schools doing that thing. One I know of is in retreat around Crestone Colorado, USA, but I venture to say many are to be found everywhere. A retreat of solitary nature with minimal interaction with others devoted to solitary meditational pursuit usually in remoteish locations. Those are probably in France. Even groups of those I would suspect.

So to add that to my personal humorous item to my little understanding of these things.

And to add the effect of participating in the long life ceremony and prayers for others in its ultimate consideration will have the effect of action by participation, of (karmic effect)...extending ones own life generally. In Tibet it is commonly thought, some specific actions as the releasing of a animal due to be killed by a butcher from bondage may have a similiar effect. The animal is released but the human as effect lives longer. So we do this thing for others but the result is we live longer. But to do it then endlessly just to live endlessly....no I don't think we will find such a short sighted bunch around.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: yogis in france

Postby alpha » Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:56 pm

Dear Ron,

I have edited my post.

I have reaslised that i have totally messed up what i wanted to ask actually. :rolling:

Obviously ,your answer was appropiate for my original post.

But my intention was to ask about these individuals who took vows to spend their life in retreat and not to ask about long life practices(white tara, amythayus,etc..)

Thank you and sorry for the confusion ..
english is not my first language

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Re: yogis in france

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:09 am

Yes, I did allow for that interpretation which was my third paragraph from the bottom.

So to rephrase, there are many individuals who do such things. But there seems to be two sorts of these peoples.
Retrants in a retreat house or monestary and solitary retreatants.

Now retreatants in a monestary or retreat house do this for perhaps very long periods of time, or I'd guess it could be a permenant thing, but that would be rare. The most common retreat, is three years three months and three days but many do longer periods. So you may have someone in such a place in virtual permenant retreat but that is differing from a solitary retreatant who basically has cut all human ties. Solitary retreatants generally will stay in silence and have no inteaction with others except to pick up foods left them by others. Never even seeing another person for the most part. In a retreat house or monestary generally the retreatant stays in silence but still there is nonverbal interaction and customarily pretty close interaction with the teacher or lama.

So there are two different kinds of this similiar peoples.

Is there a retreat house in France affiliated with Kagyu....I'd assume so. A quary to start would be perhaps Khenchen Thrangu Rinoche's web site, and if not affiliated with him, links or information there, may be a place to start. A general quary on such a thing may give a answer as well.

Are there solitary retreatants in France...I'd assume so as well. But they do not want to be known of and are often know of, only by their teachers or benefactors. They most often stay in silence, and limit any human interaction, so to have their locations known of, would be counter productive. But again this is not normally a group practice setting, though they may be close to one another physically. In Tibet and other places there may be caves close by to one another for solitary retreatants but this does not mean they are practicing in a group. So that could be a situation elsewhere. A benafactor may have a series of huts relatively close together but with the habitation, solitary retreatants. But they are not practicing as a group nor do they communicate with one another. Preferablly I'd say they would be totally isolated from everyone, but functionally that may be hard to arrive at and still eat and drink what is necessary, especially in a western environment. Even interaction with a physical teacher may be nonexistant depending on how long they have been in solitary retreat. The preference is to be solitary in every sense of the word.

Walled off solitary retreatants is another form of this....I don't think any in the west or perhaps anywhere do that thing currently. Most commonly in monestary in historical Tibet, a retreatant would be walled into a cell for meditational purposes on occasion for very long periods of time. But I would guess that is not much done nowadays.

I am just a layperson with little understanding or knowledge of such things but in my limited fashion I have tried to answer. Certainly more educated if they find this thread could provide better answers.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: yogis in france

Postby heart » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:41 am

I heard that Lama Gendun (his is dead) had a few people doing life retreat after they finished a few three year retreats. Probably in this place in France (http://www.dhagpo-kundreul.org). But I don't know if they are still in or not.

/magnus
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