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The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Kim OHara
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby Kim OHara » Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:38 am


pt1
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby pt1 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:31 pm


chownah
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby chownah » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:25 pm

I would like to ask the original poster if the term "The Artistic Process" means 1. that it is a process for creating art....or 2. it is a process that is itself "artistic". For example, "a difficult process" means it is a process that is difficult itself but does not mean that it is a process to make things difficult.

Also I'd like to ask whether the Greek statues of naked people are art and if they were created by people using "the artistic process"?

chownah

MayaRefugee
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby MayaRefugee » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:39 am

chownah,

I started this thread to better understand what goes on in the mind and the imagination during what I believe to be the artistic process - when I started this thread I'd never heard of the word papanca which I'm tending to think sums up the artistic process.

The way I see it, somewhere in the mind of an individual they learn/observe that certain instigators of sense-consciousness either alone or in arrangements/formations give rise to certain reactions/phenomena in the mind of the individual being subject to these instigators of sense-consciousness.

For whatever reason the individual that observed the arising of this certain reaction/phenomena in either themselves or someone else decides that they will play with these instigators and see if they can to get the same phenomena to arise in either themselves or someone else.

I think the imagination comes into it when the individual tries to invent instigators of sense-consciousness that haven't been manifest in a particular way before i.e. the individual is envisioning something and not just depicting what already is.

So to answer your question it is a bit of 1 and 2 - the result of thinking/acting artistically is a work of art but there are more ramifications to it.

In regards to the statues in Greece I would say they are art as it is my assumption that the sculptors were trying to get certain phenomena to arise in those viewing them. I assume the sculptors would have observed how people reacted when subject to aesthetic formations of instigators of sense-consciousness and tried to provide a means for evoking these reactions.

I would then go on to divide these artworks/sculptures/statues into those with imagination and those without. There are statues of Pan for example, half goat half man, as far as I know he is a figment of someones imagination and not a depiction of something that already is - working from a vision or something imagined IMO is harder then working from something that already is so I would say that the more imagination employed in the artistic process the more artistic the resultant instigator of sense-consciousness is.

I would really like to delve into this some more so it would be good if you all joined me in this and continued contributing to this thread.

Peace.

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Kim OHara
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby Kim OHara » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:19 am


pt1
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby pt1 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:54 pm


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Kim OHara
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby Kim OHara » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:21 pm


pt1
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby pt1 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:39 am


MayaRefugee
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby MayaRefugee » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:37 am

pt1,

When you say attachment to concepts is real are you also implying realness equates to wholesomeness?

Isn't overcoming attachment to fabricated concepts is one of the goals of the path?

Doing this is supposed to allow you to see things naked/how they are and lead to realisations congruent with the following sentiments:

To see a world in a grain of sand,
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour....William Blake

What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun....Ecclesiastes 1:9

Art could be positive/lead to the cessation of suffering if it entices someone onto the path or to "enter the stream".

"Art is the lie that let's you see the truth"....Picasso.

Without delusion there would be no art.

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Kim OHara
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:44 am

Also ...
"Music is a means of giving form to our inner feelings without attaching them to events or objects in the world."
But I don't know where the quote comes from - it's on a coffee mug someone gave me. :smile:

Kim

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tiltbillings
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:59 am


pt1
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby pt1 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:53 am


MayaRefugee
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby MayaRefugee » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:40 am

pt1,

Thanks for clarifying those things - :bow:

The sentiment I feel is expressed by those qoutes is the sameness of things i.e. nothings special, it just is - it's how I imagine art would seem when witnessed from the nibbanic view-point. Earlier in this thread zavk mentioned papanca, I'm still studying it but from what I'm gathering it's only when we indugle in papanca that things become more than they are.

If art that had allusions to The Dhamma was the catalyst that started me on a pursuit for truth/wisdom/the cessation of suffering I would be pretty foolish not to check out The Dhamma.

In saying this, with all my defilements reading The Dhamma might be laborious as I struggle to concentrate on it/give it my attention so I end up not sticking with it.

On the other hand, The Dhamma presented in a form that suits my defilements is less laborious to concentrate on/give my attention so I am more open to it and I might stick to it longer than I stuck to reading "The Dhamma".

After a while if this "artistic" source of The Dhamma is communicating the teachings successfully I might decide to work through my defilements and I might even reach the point where I can sit and read The Dhamma - then it comes to a point where you don't need your old source of The Dhamma anymore i.e. the art and you can, as you say, just stick to the suttas.

I don't really know why you would indulge in art when we're trying to cultivate disppasion and non-delusion, that's one of the reasons I started this thread.

From where I am at the moment I would say:

- there are worse ways you could spend your time.
- there is a chance you could help someone shed some degree of ignorance and thus ease their suffering.
- it's a way to keep the body busy/skill you can develop while you use your mind to contemplate.

Other than that I'm at a loss to think of a beneficial reason to indulge in art.

Peace.

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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby pt1 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:38 am


chownah
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby chownah » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:59 pm


MayaRefugee
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby MayaRefugee » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:38 pm


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Kim OHara
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:24 am


pt1
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby pt1 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:12 am


pt1
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby pt1 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:25 am


MayaRefugee
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Re: The Buddha, Imagination and The Artistic Process

Postby MayaRefugee » Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:26 am



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