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How important is technique? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

How important is technique?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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retrofuturist
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Re: How important is technique?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:15 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: How important is technique?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:49 am

Last edited by Cittasanto on Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: How important is technique?

Postby meindzai » Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:40 pm


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Re: How important is technique?

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:31 pm


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Re: How important is technique?

Postby shjohnk » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:26 am


rowyourboat
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Re: How important is technique?

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:43 am

The is a sutta in the SN where Ven Anuruddha is asked (a few suttas on satipatthana by him in the satipatthana samyutta) how he differentiates between a sekha (trainee) and an asekha (arhanth). His definition is that the former has not practised all four foundations while the latter has. Also there is another sutta which gives a nice simile- the pile of sand standing in the middle of a cross road would be flattened well if chariots came from all four directions, rather than one direction, similarly ignorance would be well dispersed if all four foundations are practised. This is not to say that one method may not suffice for a particular individual. There is also another nice sutta- 'the cook'- The kings cook knows what kind of food the king likes and makes the particular dishes to make the king happy. Similarly the monk knows which satipattana is suitable for which time to give maximum benefit to the mind. I think it is also a matter of efficiency- using different methods skilfully may make you progress faster (nothing wrong with that IMO). There is a reason why an fully enlightened being with infinite knowledge did not come up with one method to suit them all...it is impossible. If something doesn't work after giving it a good try, then there's no point flogging a dead horse. But if you are gaining and seeing progress when you look back every few months, then it is worthwhile continuing. I suppose knowing what you are trying to do, investigation,exploration, knowing where the mind should be headed, honesty with yourself, not clinging to methods/teacher, are all important if we are to 'save' ourselves.

with metta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Re: How important is technique?

Postby Virgo » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:19 pm

As far as the quote in the Satipatthana Sutta about "practicing" all four foundations of mindfulness, all experienced phenomena are grouped into these four groups for sake of easy classification and expression, and all of these four "foundations" must be understood by panna. Obviously if panna only understands body,feeling, mind, but not mind objects then the understanding of conditioned phenomena is not clear enough and panna won't begin to develop on the penetrative level in any strong way. In truth the classification explains which dhammas are arising and falling and shows that one should be mindful of their nature. When one understands, the mental factor of panna can arise.

Kevin


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Re: How important is technique?

Postby Virgo » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:51 pm

Of course if panna develops well in an individual that individual will see the not-self, impermanent, or unsatisfactory aspects of phenomena that arise from time to time naturally since the conditions are correct for it, ie. panna is developed within the citta and not-self, impermanent, unsatisfactory phenomena are arising based only on conditions. Because of this understanding the being will know that attachment and aversion are very dangerous because they force one to react to objects that are really beyond our control, not us, not belonging to us, and only bring us to misery, and so on. Seeing that disadvantage to attachment and aversion and understanding conditionality that being may think, "it would be beneficial if I meditated on the vileness of the body to dispel lust because attachment to this body comes up". The being feels this way because panna understands anicca, anatta, and dukkha from time to time and so it sees the great drawback in clinging or being averse to these objects. Understanding conditions, that being knows that it is wise to meditate on the loathsomeness of the body, for example, so there are less conditions for attachment to it to arise again in the future. Attachment arising less, in future lifetimes one will not be obsessed with sex as much, and not make as much mental, physical, and verbal unwholesome kammas because of it, and this is a good thing. This practice in itself will not remove lust -- only panna can do that, but it is still wise and the being feels naturally compelled to do so because his panna has already developed to a certain degree. At the same time, the being knows that although through methods like this, one can set things up so that there is less clinging and so forth, the conditions for panna penetrating the anatta aspect of dhammas is panna or wisdom on the level of understanding. Like corn growing in a field it cannot be rushed; once the seeds are sown one waits for the crop to grow without pulling on it to try and make it grow faster, which is impossible, likewise once the seeds of Right Understanding of sown, one allows panna to grow. In the meantime, if they being has accumulations and conditions to go and practice an object of samatha like the being above, one does. Instances of satipatthana can naturally arise, when the conditions are right, even as one meditates on a loathsome corpse of skeleton, and so on. In this way, one practices samatha because one has panna developed and one has accumulations for it.

Kevin



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