'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

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mindyourmind
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'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby mindyourmind » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:45 pm

Would you agree that 'non-duality' is not 'neutrality'?
Dualism is the real root of our suffering and all of our conflicts.

Namkhai Norbu

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby username » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:28 pm

Never mind other words which mislead, what is meant by 'Non-dual' is not ultimately 'non-dual' or definitely not 'union' (implying previous and/or possible separation) or even 'inseparable', it is untranslatable into English or probably any language adequately and is a mere semantic pointer which is all that can be done. Different aspects of the same truth manifesting according to karmic visions, contemplations and stage on the path. We are told this quality or aspect or more accurately form of knowledge about ultimate reality is only understood through direct personal experience.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

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mindyourmind
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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby mindyourmind » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:17 am

Dualism is the real root of our suffering and all of our conflicts.

Namkhai Norbu

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mindyourmind
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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby mindyourmind » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:21 am

Dualism is the real root of our suffering and all of our conflicts.

Namkhai Norbu

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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:40 am


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mindyourmind
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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby mindyourmind » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:26 am

Dualism is the real root of our suffering and all of our conflicts.

Namkhai Norbu

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Sönam
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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby Sönam » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:39 am

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby muni » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:09 am

Contemplation is like the mountain or the sea:
Neither moving nor changing, it is lucent and unsullied.
All labeling that erupts
through the proliferation of perturbations
thus ceases.

Contemplate things as they really are straight away.

http://www.plotinus.com/longchenpa_copy.htm

Therefore: Pointing out.

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:26 pm

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby username » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:45 pm

Doesn't mean justifying Nazis gassing babies or watching a child drown, that is an anti Dzogchen mara state and great downfall into lower states. We are not siddhas, when you can fly, then you can talk however it comes to one to benefit others, but before that dispensing with shila and ethics only leads to painful conditions and then realms. However constant contemplation is necessary but not fantasies or over-complications which is a Western disease as some teachers say in great surprise.

Within Dzogchen cycles alone there are many methods and stages and even various prelim methods for thoughts of varying degrees as needed before that. Generally 4 stages on thought liberation often reduced to 3. Best not to over theorize or reduce to our cultural norms (neutral, talk to the hand, who cares, whatever!) and trust the guru's (and text's) exact teaching simply and no more no less as old Indians and Tibetans did to the letter due to faith after carefully chosing a guru. Often Dzogchen and Mahamudra practitioners over-convolute or make stages seem unattainable, not so.

As people are on different levels we can't generalize too much, but as a general rule watch the thoughts and emotions and 6 senses (includes mind/consciousness) as an observer. If caught up in them, repeat, in all sort of daily routines. If too involved or turbulant, try the various stages and methods of thought control within your Dzogchen lineage system first and adjust as necessary. We are told after observing and following the guru's pithy instructions, teachings slowly clarify with experience and unfold more. So if we can't liberte them by various stages' methods yet, without being carried away by monkey mind thoughts nor clinging nor fears: Let's just watch it first, dispassionately.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby muni » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:35 pm

A wave in sea uses no algebra to just let its' selfexisting nature be like it is, being sea and so relaxing in unfabrication.
Only an expression based on "Guru Rinpoches' indivisible".

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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:00 pm

If I meet someone on the road with a broken leg it hardly benefits either of us to start teaching him about Dzogchen. His reality is too intense for him right now for that. Why should I presume that he is a mahasiddha and is OK with his broken leg? I have to take him to a hospital and fix his leg. If I then teach him about Dzogchen it would be inconsistent of me to then break his leg and put him back where I found him.

Until I can be certain that everyone I meet is a mahasiddha the conventional truth can't be abandoned. If my ethics are cr*p my meditation will also be cr*p. If the foundation of my house is sand the house will be a cr*p house. Why shouldn't this also apply to the view of Dzogchen?

Without the bodhicitta of my gracious teachers for example I would never have encountered Dzogchen in this lifetime in the first place.

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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby muni » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:17 pm

Dear Karma, without bodhichitta there is no Dzogchen at all. The pure love /Mahakaruna, as all appears in vastness of own nature of mind as radiance, how can there not be the care for a broken leg of a beggar, a king, a master, a stranger...? It is spontaneous and pure energy. " From within pure nature emerging the recieved teachings into daily life. That is there told.

There is no dividing practice conventional and absolute. It is inseparable Wisdom-Compassion. Those who understand are having great compassion for all!

Thank you. :anjali:

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Malcolm
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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby Malcolm » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:35 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby username » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:59 pm

In translations of texts and by teachers who speak English, non-dual is often used in numerous instances of various methods and view explanations within Dzogchen alone, so it depends on the context and the stage and that particuar teaching. Ultimately view-wise in English texts and teachings it is often used for non-dualness of Kadak-Lhundrob within Dzogchen though each translator or lama has his/her personal choice of words for various occasions.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

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Malcolm
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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby Malcolm » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:52 am





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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adinatha
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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby adinatha » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:16 am

it also means not grasping true or false.
CAW!

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Malcolm
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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby Malcolm » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:22 am





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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adinatha
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Re: 'Non-duality' and 'neutrality'

Postby adinatha » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:34 am

It is true that something false can harm me. For example, someone might see me as Osama bin Laden's cousin and shoot me. So a falsity is in the realm of being.
CAW!


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