James Low & Simply Being

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Malcolm
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by Malcolm »

Clarence wrote: Do I understand that right?
Yes, you do.
Arnoud
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by Arnoud »

Namdrol wrote:
Clarence wrote: Do I understand that right?
Yes, you do.
When recognizing the Natural State, can one have thoughts?
Malcolm
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by Malcolm »

Clarence wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Clarence wrote: Do I understand that right?
Yes, you do.
When recognizing the Natural State, can one have thoughts?

Yes. Thoughts arise from that state and return to it.
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by Arnoud »

Namdrol wrote:
Yes. Thoughts arise from that state and return to it.
So, what you are saying, if I understand correctly, is that the Natural State and thoughts are like a package which is encompassed and known by Rigpa?
Malcolm
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by Malcolm »

Clarence wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Yes. Thoughts arise from that state and return to it.
So, what you are saying, if I understand correctly, is that the Natural State and thoughts are like a package which is encompassed and known by Rigpa?
RIgpa is knowing what reality is. Like wine, it ages and deepens. Unlike wine, it never "falls apart", though continued familiarity with it matures it faster.

N
Arnoud
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by Arnoud »

Thanks Namdrol. I do appreciate the answers. Quite a bit of clarity gained today.
White Lotus
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by White Lotus »

being is important, but so is becoming. when you see ripa it is this normal sensation we have when we see objects or exactly the same as when we look within. this normal sensation is emptiness. we have had this all the time, nothing new. just didnt recognise it for what it is.
best wishes, Tom.
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Rinchen Dorje
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by Rinchen Dorje »

When we say "Knowledge" of the natural state is rigpa, by "knowledge" we mean gnosis not knowledge as in the acquisition of intellectual data, right?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
Pema Rigdzin
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by Pema Rigdzin »

White Lotus wrote:being is important, but so is becoming. when you see ripa it is this normal sensation we have when we see objects or exactly the same as when we look within. this normal sensation is emptiness. we have had this all the time, nothing new. just didnt recognise it for what it is.
best wishes, Tom.
Tom,

I'm afraid rigpa isn't a sensation. All kinds of sensations and thoughts may arise when one is in rigpa, but they are not to be confused with rigpa itself or emptiness. And there isn't any looking in Dzogchen proper, whether within, without, or somewhere in between.

Have you ever received Dzogchen empowerment from an authentic Dzogchen lama? I'm just asking because I'm curious where you get your information from.
Pema Rigdzin/Brian Pittman
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by Pema Rigdzin »

Fa Dao wrote:When we say "Knowledge" of the natural state is rigpa, by "knowledge" we mean gnosis not knowledge as in the acquisition of intellectual data, right?
Correct.
Pema Rigdzin/Brian Pittman
Malcolm
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by Malcolm »

Fa Dao wrote:When we say "Knowledge" of the natural state is rigpa, by "knowledge" we mean gnosis not knowledge as in the acquisition of intellectual data, right?
By knowledge, we mean that you know what is being discussed. No need to gum up the works with fancy words like gnosis. In the beginning you need to acquire intellectual data. Then you need to apply it. This is all part of "rigpa".

If you say that rigpa is only a "gnosis" than this makes things more complicated --it means in order to have that knowledge you must already be awakened. But this is not the case. Rigpa is the knowledge you have that allows you to wake up. Rigpa is a complicated word in Dzogchen texts, and has different meanings in different contexts, but generally it just means knowledge, which in English is the antonym of ignorance (ma rig pa). Conceptual knowledge is inlcuded under the general definition of vidyā, this is a poorly understood point.

N
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Rinchen Dorje
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by Rinchen Dorje »

got it..thanks
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
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padma norbu
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by padma norbu »

Namdrol wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:When we say "Knowledge" of the natural state is rigpa, by "knowledge" we mean gnosis not knowledge as in the acquisition of intellectual data, right?
By knowledge, we mean that you know what is being discussed. No need to gum up the works with fancy words like gnosis. In the beginning you need to acquire intellectual data. Then you need to apply it. This is all part of "rigpa".

If you say that rigpa is only a "gnosis" than this makes things more complicated --it means in order to have that knowledge you must already be awakened. But this is not the case. Rigpa is the knowledge you have that allows you to wake up. Rigpa is a complicated word in Dzogchen texts, and has different meanings in different contexts, but generally it just means knowledge, which in English is the antonym of ignorance (ma rig pa). Conceptual knowledge is inlcuded under the general definition of vidyā, this is a poorly understood point.

N

This should be explained thoroughly in every Dzogchen book ever written. Thank you very much, Namdrol, for finally clarifying this all-important term. Many people seem to talk about it as if it's just a state of nondistracted, nonconceptual awareness in which thoughts may arise but which do not become distractions from the recognition of awareness. This is actually the impression I've been under and so when I experience this, I think of it as rigpa, which may very well be a big part of what rigpa means, but does not sound like the full definition. I suppose this may have something to do with the many things ChNN has said over the years that make me just go, "HUH?" like in the My Reincarnation movie where he tells the student (paraphrased), "there is not really much to change, it is not like one day you are transformed. Practice is about discovering something and becoming aware of that knowledge and working with that knowledge" ... and also his repeated instruction to remain present when we are going about our daily activities. Becoming aware of how the mind works and being mindful of it seems to be what rigpa is about, if I am not misunderstanding something or going too far here.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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heart
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by heart »

Namdrol wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:When we say "Knowledge" of the natural state is rigpa, by "knowledge" we mean gnosis not knowledge as in the acquisition of intellectual data, right?
By knowledge, we mean that you know what is being discussed. No need to gum up the works with fancy words like gnosis. In the beginning you need to acquire intellectual data. Then you need to apply it. This is all part of "rigpa".

If you say that rigpa is only a "gnosis" than this makes things more complicated --it means in order to have that knowledge you must already be awakened. But this is not the case. Rigpa is the knowledge you have that allows you to wake up. Rigpa is a complicated word in Dzogchen texts, and has different meanings in different contexts, but generally it just means knowledge, which in English is the antonym of ignorance (ma rig pa). Conceptual knowledge is inlcuded under the general definition of vidyā, this is a poorly understood point.

N
True, but in Dzogchen Trechö rigpa is not conceptual knowledge, that also seems to be poorly understood.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Malcolm
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by Malcolm »

heart wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:When we say "Knowledge" of the natural state is rigpa, by "knowledge" we mean gnosis not knowledge as in the acquisition of intellectual data, right?
By knowledge, we mean that you know what is being discussed. No need to gum up the works with fancy words like gnosis. In the beginning you need to acquire intellectual data. Then you need to apply it. This is all part of "rigpa".

If you say that rigpa is only a "gnosis" than this makes things more complicated --it means in order to have that knowledge you must already be awakened. But this is not the case. Rigpa is the knowledge you have that allows you to wake up. Rigpa is a complicated word in Dzogchen texts, and has different meanings in different contexts, but generally it just means knowledge, which in English is the antonym of ignorance (ma rig pa). Conceptual knowledge is inlcuded under the general definition of vidyā, this is a poorly understood point.

N
True, but in Dzogchen Trechö rigpa is not conceptual knowledge, that also seems to be poorly understood.

/magnus
Conceptual knowledge is included in rigpa in tregchö -- this is why we have rig pa cog bzhag.

N
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heart
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by heart »

Namdrol wrote:
heart wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
By knowledge, we mean that you know what is being discussed. No need to gum up the works with fancy words like gnosis. In the beginning you need to acquire intellectual data. Then you need to apply it. This is all part of "rigpa".

If you say that rigpa is only a "gnosis" than this makes things more complicated --it means in order to have that knowledge you must already be awakened. But this is not the case. Rigpa is the knowledge you have that allows you to wake up. Rigpa is a complicated word in Dzogchen texts, and has different meanings in different contexts, but generally it just means knowledge, which in English is the antonym of ignorance (ma rig pa). Conceptual knowledge is inlcuded under the general definition of vidyā, this is a poorly understood point.

N
True, but in Dzogchen Trechö rigpa is not conceptual knowledge, that also seems to be poorly understood.

/magnus
Conceptual knowledge is included in rigpa in tregchö -- this is why we have rig pa cog bzhag.

N
I am afraid that makes no sense. Does ChNN say this?

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Malcolm
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by Malcolm »

heart wrote:
I am afraid that makes no sense. Does ChNN say this?

/magnus
Rig pa cog bzhag is allowing all thoughts to be as they are. Conceptual knowledge is included in thoughts.
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gad rgyangs
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by gad rgyangs »

Rigpa is that which enables you to be astonished that there is something rather than nothing.
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.

"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
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Virgo
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by Virgo »

padma norbu wrote: I suppose this may have something to do with the many things ChNN has said over the years that make me just go, "HUH?" like in the My Reincarnation movie where he tells the student (paraphrased), "there is not really much to change, it is not like one day you are transformed. Practice is about discovering something and becoming aware of that knowledge and working with that knowledge" ... and also his repeated instruction to remain present when we are going about our daily activities. Becoming aware of how the mind works and being mindful of it seems to be what rigpa is about, if I am not misunderstanding something or going too far here.
That nature is always there. If there is any light, any existence, any blood, any form, any thing at all, then the nature is already available. You don't need a coupon, a discount, a charge card, a bucket, anything. It's there. So there is nothing to worry about. All things have the same essence. Everything is perfect.

Kevin
Malcolm
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Re: James Low & Simply Being

Post by Malcolm »

gad rgyangs wrote:Rigpa is that which enables you to be astonished that there is something rather than nothing.
What are you, a Heidegger fan?
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