Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby Indrajala » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:04 pm

gyougan wrote:It seems that some Japanese people are finally getting angry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVuGwc9dlhQ


Oh man I was happy to see this video.

Finally some residents confronting garbage officials. The fact that that one couldn't admit that people have a right not to be exposed to radiation was pathetic.
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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:05 pm

Saw a blip last week about a bunch of radiation contaminated cows.

Hate to say it...these peoples these areas part of the ocean, this stuff is in the food chain. No way to get it out, and it will persist.
The end result but one which will not present for many many years and is thusly ignorable....peoples life expectancies will decrease and radiation related diseases such as thyroid cancer will dramatically increase.
But for now cover up, tell them it is not harmful and change the standards on acceptable levels of exposure.

So we go on, .little learned and little behaviors changed. Japan perhaps now they will drop nuclear, that is about all that will change. I expect that to happen.

The real root of the matter why we need so much power and things to consume..to many people, just to many people for this world to sustain in a liveable manner. Till we stop that,we will not stop environmental degregation. This here that there.....no stopping it.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby Indrajala » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:25 pm

ronnewmexico wrote:The real root of the matter why we need so much power and things to consume..to many people, just to many people for this world to sustain in a liveable manner. Till we stop that,we will not stop environmental degregation. This here that there.....no stopping it.


I think the planet is overpopulated, yes, but that doesn't mean we can't reduce our consumption and energy usage.

The problem however is capitalism which demands economic growth. In democratic countries if a politician comes out and suggests rapid de-industrialization coupled with mass reduction in infrastructure, power usage and so on, he'll be run out of office even though this is what the planet actually needs.

Especially in North America if cities were properly designed. Instead of having vast swaths of land turned into suburbia, all of which require a lot of energy and resources to build, upkeep and operate. We need compact cities where not everyone needs to own a car and a set of lawn care tools.

Nobody is willing to sacrifice. That's the problem. We hear about "sustainable development". Japan needs to reduce energy consumption if it is going to drop nuclear energy, but those millions of vending machines keep rolling and neon lights continue to blaze.

The planet is going to be driven into being a toxic hell hole before genuine sacrifice is made. I'm not optimistic. We're all going to end up living in the same toxic environment. Rich or poor. 1st or 3rd world.
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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:35 pm

Well yes we can reduce our energy consumption and such things. The problem is peoples are misleading themselves by that thing into thinking that solves the greater problem....the greater problem being to many people.

No amount of energy savings and producing things in the right way will solve anything when the worlds population reaches say...10 billion.
We are a step away from that.
So we die and suffer enmasse. A million will die when once it was a thousand, in flood catastrophy whatever.
And the rest we live with grey skies bad air and no free space.....so in hell.

So it is very difficulate to practice in hell...you I'd guess see a glimpse of that right now.
Much more peoples but who will be able to practice? Diseased lungs sick no sun weak eyes bad brain sad.....very very few I surmise.

Than wasted none practicing cause for such a thing.....no longer in a fashion exists.
So it returns to the insects and bacterias and such things.....after a while. The no practicing guaranteeing the outcome in a karmic sort of way.

Well other planets, other realms other places...dharma continues, it is the base of all things.
But these here...they don't know their future... what awaits their type. It is so sad. You can't tell them.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:45 pm

Huseng wrote:
Nobody is willing to sacrifice. That's the problem. We hear about "sustainable development". Japan needs to reduce energy consumption if it is going to drop nuclear energy, but those millions of vending machines keep rolling and neon lights continue to blaze.



What's going to happen is that we will run out of petrofuels. It will happen. But it will not be chaotic, and catastrophic. Industrial civilization will basically lurch to a halt. Read this guy, he is very bright and writes very well.

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/

N
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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:01 pm

Well I'd say yes and no.

it's all a matter of cost. It just that everything becomes prohibitively expensive, All can still be had...but at what price? So as mentioned it goes into everything else. A while to go on that though. Gas fracturing retrieval, shale oil, coal oil...they've just begun most of that. Wholescale environmental destruction following all those. Hand in glove. More expenseive oil, then shale oil becomes profitable.MOre expensive stlll, then hydraulic fracturing for gas as alternative to oil(this is where we are right now), More expensive then coal for oil(that will take us quite a ways ...and on and on.
That writer has a good grasp it seems by my take especially on Glass Steagle.

Greenlands ice cap slips away before they go through all those options by my take....20 feet under water NYC for instance, all of bangladesh, 90% of the population centers of the world...these are the types of things a coming.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby justsit » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:13 pm

Thanks for the link, Namdrol, the author has some excellent points.
Reminds me of a novel I read back in the 80's entitled Alas, Babylon, which depicted a post-apocalyptic world where money was useless and things like bicycle inner tubes, sewing needles, and safety pins were hot commodities. Seems that's where we're headed.
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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:24 pm

ronnewmexico wrote:20 feet under water NYC for instance,


that's ok, new york city is a cesspool anyway.

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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:35 pm

Yeah but my favortie TV show democracy now is located there...what will I do???

But that aside....
Peoples looking as they do don't look at the potential conseuence of just that one thing happening. Sea levels will probably rise by 20 feet.
It won't happen all in one big gulp but over ten years or so(this could happen fifty years from now)... I'd say is not impossible and as this thing is progressing way way beyond the computer models that may be a probable.

See anyone building any dikes anywhere.....more money to be made in the aftermath than preventing the aftermath is my guess.

So good point on oil but a thing like that could make oil resources a bit of a afterthought. AS with the recession we just went through showed.... gas went to what...2.50 a gallon for a bit. Imagine a relatviely, sudden rise in sea level and since 90% of the worlds poplulation lives within a couple miles of a sea or ocean....oil ...since this impacts GDP significantly, things of that sort becomes a bit of a afterthought.
No consumption oversupply.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby Mr. G » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:44 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Huseng wrote:
Nobody is willing to sacrifice. That's the problem. We hear about "sustainable development". Japan needs to reduce energy consumption if it is going to drop nuclear energy, but those millions of vending machines keep rolling and neon lights continue to blaze.



What's going to happen is that we will run out of petrofuels. It will happen. But it will not be chaotic, and catastrophic. Industrial civilization will basically lurch to a halt. Read this guy, he is very bright and writes very well.

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/

N



I take it his books are good as well? They've been sitting in my amazon wishlist for a while.
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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:07 pm

mr. gordo wrote:I take it his books are good as well? They've been sitting in my amazon wishlist for a while.



I think so.
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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby Indrajala » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:12 pm

Suicide rates have increased following the disaster.



Even some organic farmers took their own lives after all their work was quickly destroyed by radioactive contamination.

The Fukushima disaster is something Japan will live with forever unfortunately. The radioactive contamination isn't going to go away this century.
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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby kirtu » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:07 pm

Huseng wrote:
ronnewmexico wrote:Especially in North America if cities were properly designed. Instead of having vast swaths of land turned into suburbia, all of which require a lot of energy and resources to build, upkeep and operate. We need compact cities where not everyone needs to own a car and a set of lawn care tools.


Oregon, Northern California, Washington State, Santa Fe and various pocket cities in Canada (I'm thinking Vancouver in particular) - these come close to proper design and can be retrofitted and become a real example. There used to be example cities like this in the DC area which is now clearly just sprawl.

Actually I left out Vermont. New York (upstate) ought to be there and there can be examples but the state has been in an economic depression (triggered by massive corporate departure) for far longer than the 2008 Depression.


Kirt
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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby kirtu » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:11 pm

Huseng wrote:Suicide rates have increased following the disaster.

Even some organic farmers took their own lives after all their work was quickly destroyed by radioactive contamination.

The Fukushima disaster is something Japan will live with forever unfortunately. The radioactive contamination isn't going to go away this century.


But why? The contamination isn't that bad. Kids need to be evacuated but with the correct policies and actions people can recover but they will have to work at it. I have been shocked by some reports where it seems people are overreacting (as opposed to the government's underreaction).

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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:52 pm

kirtu wrote: the DC area which is now clearly just sprawl.

Kirt


That is for sure.
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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby Indrajala » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:43 am

The safety of the rice crop this year is becoming a concern. Harvest starts next month.



What a mess this whole thing is.
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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby ronnewmexico » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:56 pm

Radiation levels at the plant have now been found to far exceed any previous estimates. The instruments used to measure the radiation basically maxed out, so it is impossible to determine exactly how highly contaminated this area is(within the plant)....http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-02/high-fukushima-radiation-levels-won-t-delay-work-hosono-says.html ....

the saga continues...the new phrase of the japanese government is soon to be certainly...Remember, radiation is your friend....

A quote from the article, and to add this source is corporate media at its greatest...Bloomberg is source...

"Radioactive soil in pockets of areas outside the exclusion zone around the plant have reached the same level as in Chernobyl following a reactor explosion in the former Soviet Union territory 25 years ago, the report said.

The threats to Japan’s food chain are also multiplying as radioactive cesium emissions from the Fukushima plant spread. Contaminated beef has been found on supermarket shelves around the country, forcing the government to ban cattle shipments from areas in northern Japan. "
..

I advised someone earlier on this thread I feared the worst and to study closely the situation before proceeding....my fears now prove founded in fact.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby Heruka » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:33 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... mated.html


Japan-Fukushima-disaster-released-twice-as-much-radiation-as-initially-estimated




By Danielle Demetriou in Tokyo

28 Oct 2011





A worldwide network of sensors found that levels of radioactive caesium 137 released from the damaged nuclear plant were significantly higher than anticipated, according to the Norwegian Institute for Air Research study.


The Japanese government estimated that 15,000 terabecquerels of caesium were released after the plant was damaged, while the new study put the figure at 36,000 terabecquerels – 40 per cent of the total released from Chernobyl.


Andreas Stohl, author of the preliminary study, focused on the emission of caesium 137, a slow decaying element which can last for 30 years in the environment and release cancer-causing radiation.


The discrepancy in Fukushima levels was attributed to the possibility that data recordings in Japan at the time would not have taken into account the emissions which were blown directly out to sea.


Around 20 per cent of the caesium settled on land in Japan, while the remainder is believed to have fallen into the Pacific Ocean, with around two per cent ending up on land outside the country.
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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby Mr. G » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:15 pm

Study Shows Worse Picture of Meltdown in Japan

TOKYO — Molten nuclear fuel may have bored into the floor of at least one of the reactors at the stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, the complex’s operator said Wednesday, citing a new simulation of the accident that crippled the plant in March. The simulation suggested that the meltdown may have been more severe than had previously been thought.

Read More Here...
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Re: Fukushima: It's much worse than you think

Postby Indrajala » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:07 am

Mr. G wrote:Study Shows Worse Picture of Meltdown in Japan

TOKYO — Molten nuclear fuel may have bored into the floor of at least one of the reactors at the stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, the complex’s operator said Wednesday, citing a new simulation of the accident that crippled the plant in March. The simulation suggested that the meltdown may have been more severe than had previously been thought.

Read More Here...


The bizarre thing is that life goes on as usual in Japan. The government has downplayed any potential risk to public health and besides some rightfully pissed off citizens around Fukushima, most of Japan doesn't really care.

The solution to the increased radiation levels around schools was to raise the allowable level of radiation.

The government of course knows that is complete nonsense, but it absolves them of any responsibility. The law states now a new allowable level of radiation around schools, so provided it doesn't go beyond that, they have no obligation to do anything.
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