the great rebirth debate

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
nowheat
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby nowheat » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:14 pm


PeterB
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby PeterB » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:17 pm

Good for you. You do it your way and I'll do it mine. Straight up and on the rocks. No half measures. I am not interested in adjusting to conventional reality. I am interested in finding the house builder.

meindzai
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby meindzai » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:29 pm


nowheat
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby nowheat » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:38 pm


meindzai
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby meindzai » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:40 pm


Kenshou
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Kenshou » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:55 pm


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BlackBird
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby BlackBird » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:57 pm

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

seanpdx
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby seanpdx » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:22 pm


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Ben
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Ben » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:08 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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drew
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby drew » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:14 am

On Samsara.
Concepts so often get in the way.
I think it is vitally important to step back and realise that the only thing between our present experience and enlightenment is ignorance.
Not being fully aware, not seeing clearly, being distracted, attaching.
In a state of clear awareness dukkha can be experienced as subtly as not being aware of a single instant arising and passing away.
A minute 'not knowing' that causes the clear mind to agitate ever so slightly.
This is Samsara, this is Dukkha, just as sure as birth, disease, old age and death, albeit at a very different magnitude.

And on rebirth.
We as Buddhists need to train our awareness to the present. The future is by definition not known and therefore bound up in ignorance (perhaps not for more enlightened beings, so excuse me if this doesn't apply to you).
By practising the path we can all be aware of past lives and how they condition our present experience.
If we are mindful of, and develop equanimity toward our old patterns they eventually burn up and, in my experience, leave a very clear impression of cause.
The old patterns can go back a very, very long way, and we as Dhamma practitioners have the means to eradicate them, all of them.

Did the Buddha say something like "the past has gone, the future is unknown"?
And the Kalama Sutta give an instructive discourse on what should be believed.
The gift of the Dhamma excels all gifts (DP354)

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bodom
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby bodom » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:24 am

You shouldn't chase after the past or place expectations on the future. What is past is left behind. The future is as yet unreached. Whatever quality is present you clearly see right there, right there. Not taken in, unshaken, that's how you develop the heart. Ardently doing what should be done today, for — who knows? — tomorrow death. There is no bargaining with Mortality & his mighty horde. Whoever lives thus ardently, relentlessly both day & night, has truly had an auspicious day: so says the Peaceful Sage.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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Ben
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Ben » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:26 am

Nice post, bodom!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

nowheat
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Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:42 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby nowheat » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:01 am


nowheat
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby nowheat » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:06 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:12 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

nowheat
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby nowheat » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:38 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:44 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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BlackBird
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby BlackBird » Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:21 am

:goodpost:

If you would like a thorough elucidation nowheat, may I recommend:

http://www.beyondthenet.net/calm/nibbana22.htm

(My gratitude must go to Retro for linking this in a previous thread)

metta
Jack :heart:
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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Adrien
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Adrien » Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:33 am

Please don't hesitate to correct my english if you feel to

seanpdx
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby seanpdx » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:33 pm



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