View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

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theravada_guy
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View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby theravada_guy » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:51 am

Greetings all,

Would Classical Theravada view the Mahayana and Vajrayana schools, sects, etc. heretics? If not, how are they labeled?
With metta,

Justin

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Re: View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:55 am

Greetings,

I'm not sure of the English rendering, let alone the Pali original, but they would at least be regarded as "schismatic".

I look forward to hearing from our members more learned in the classical perspectives, the range of language that was used traditionally in relation to schismatic sects.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby Reductor » Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:42 am


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Ben
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Re: View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby Ben » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:49 am

A reminder...
Posts that do not conform to the strict criteria of the Classical Theravada forum are deleted without warning.
However interesting a Mahayanist or Vajrayanist pov is, its off-topic in this forum.
Repeat offenders may attract disciplinary action.
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
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Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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retrofuturist
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Re: View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:29 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Dan74
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Re: View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby Dan74 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:39 am

I believe there is something from Uttaravipatti Sutta AN.IV.163 that addresses this:

"Whatever is well-spoken [subhasita], all that is the word of the Buddha [Buddhabhasita]."

_/|\_
_/|\_

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Re: View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:11 am


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Re: View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby Sanghamitta » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:44 am

The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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Kare
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Re: View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby Kare » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:50 am

Mettāya,
Kåre

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Re: View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby Dan74 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:04 pm

And the answer is...... drumbeat.....

.....whatever is conducive to enlightenment!

(bet you didn't see that one coming!)

This is mentioned both in Cullavaga of the Vinaya and in the Anguttara Nikaya (according to Williams p. 42). I am no scholar and most of the references I would mention are not appropriate for this forum, but the point was simply to say that the Buddha may not have intended for the Canon to have been closed with the parinibbana. After all quite a number of discourses in the Nikayas were given by the Buddha's disciples (and approved by the Buddha), so he may have left a possibility for other arahats after the parinirvana to continue to explain the Dhamma and to make some of these explanations canonical. And the sutta I cite above appears (to me) to support that.

But I am no scholar (as you know).

_/|\_

PS But Kare is, and he appears to have beat me to the punch, although I don't know what the 37 bodhipakkhiya dhammas are (factors conducive to enlightenment??)

PPS With apologies, I will bow out of this discussion, since my learning of Classical Theravada is not going to be enough to keep up.
_/|\_

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Re: View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby Paññāsikhara » Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:10 pm

Although the 37 are common to all schools, they are usually only used as further expressions of the path. I think at least we'd need to include the other three truths, too, wouldn't we?

Those definitions from the Pali Vinaya above, could be used - by those inclined to literal meanings - to justify each and any school considering every other school schismatic. Personally, such an attitude would probably exacerbate any problems or differences in understanding.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby Kare » Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:54 pm

Mettāya,
Kåre

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Re: View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:12 am


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Re: View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:36 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby Dan74 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:53 am

_/|\_

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retrofuturist
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Re: View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:57 am

Greetings Dan,

Well done. I applaud your noble silence. :sage:

That said, feel free to create a splinter-topic in the Dhammic Free-For-All forum in which to explore that particular question from whatever angle you like.

Then feel free also to come back here and post a link to your DFFA-located topic. The forum-specific rules certainly aren't intended to stifle discussion, merely to set parameters that facilitate focused discussion.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby PeterB » Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:43 am

An elegant solution Retro.
I will benefit most from the forum if I post only on the Classical Theravada and Theravada Meditation subforae.
So thats what I intend.

:anjali:

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Re: View of Mahayana/Vajrayana

Postby Dan74 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:18 am

Following Retro's suggestion, Ive started a topic on What is Conducive to Awakening here:



_/|\_
_/|\_


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