Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment

[denice]

buddha/enlightenment:

non "state of mind"(no mind) before "thought" arises

[LastLegend]

You are trying to verbalize the mind?

That's what is called "teaching" and "studying" in Buddhism.

Really? I think you should focus on your meditation.

[Karma Dondrup Tashi]

You are trying to verbalize the mind?

That's what is called "teaching" and "studying" in Buddhism.

Really? I think you should focus on your meditation.

Without the proper view meditation is pointless.

[LastLegend]

Without the proper view meditation is pointless.

Yes but if you want to experience emptiness, then you need to focus on meditation.

[Astus]

I don't think that Buddhism is much different from any other field of knowledge. You learn about it, you understand it, you put it into practice. Trying to put something into practice what one has no or minimal information of is simply ineffective. So when it is said, "do meditation", it has to be clear what that meditation actually means and what the process of it is. If one knows only as much as to count the inhalation and exhalation that it is that much one can develop and attain. If one knows how to go from counting breath to eventually gaining insight into emptiness then that path one can go through. Ignorance is the root of suffering, on every level.

[LastLegend]

I don't think that Buddhism is much different from any other field of knowledge. You learn about it, you understand it, you put it into practice. Trying to put something into practice what one has no or minimal information of is simply ineffective. So when it is said, "do meditation", it has to be clear what that meditation actually means and what the process of it is. If one knows only as much as to count the inhalation and exhalation that it is that much one can develop and attain. If one knows how to go from counting breath to eventually gaining insight into emptiness then that path one can go through. Ignorance is the root of suffering, on every level.

I am not disputing that. I am talking about folks who have some of understanding of teachings but still love to talk about emptiness as if it can be reached through intellect. Dwelling the in delusion of what emptiness is or is not is not gonna help with meditation. We have faith in the teaching of emptiness and similar teachings and some ideas about emptiness, but to truly understand it we have to experience it by becoming enlightened ourselves.

Yes, you have to practice and yes you have to study the teachings...but philosophizing about emptiness is not gonna do any good. Why? Because emptiness is for us to experience but not for us to discuss. That's the goal. Yes, you can practice without bothering with learning emptiness. Theravadins don't believe in emptiness. As long as you understand the basic teaching that there is suffering, and to end the cause of suffering through whatever method of meditation you are employing. My meditation is NAM MO A DI DA PHAT. What is your meditation? Meditation is the practice of detaching from the 3 karma of body, speech, and mind.

[Quiet Heart]

I think I told the story before of the fool who while looking into a miirror acidentally dropped the mirror and broke it.
He was sure that dropping that mirror had shattrered his head.
So he spent a lot of time running around looking for another mirror to see if his head was still there and not broken.
When he finally found a mirror, he was relieved to find that he still had his head after all.
That made him very happy.
Of course, you and I know his head was really there all along, don't we.

[Karma Dondrup Tashi]

The Buddha always emphasized a three-step approach to practicing his teachings: listening (studying), reflecting, and meditating. He did not say, “Listen and then meditate.” However, it is exactly the middle stage of reflection that is often missing in the practice of Buddhists. As students of Buddhism, we are required to first gain sufficient access to the relevant information about Buddhist theory and practice through both scriptures and oral instructions. Following that, the material has to be investigated and integrated into our own personal understanding. Finally, meditation serves as the means to familiarize ourselves with this understanding on increasingly deeper levels until it becomes a spontaneous living experience in every situation.

Thus, it is at the step of reflection that reasoning in general— and Madhyamaka reasoning in particular — comes into play. Here, reflection does not mean just pondering something in a vague way but employing systematic and rigorous techniques of reasoning to gain thorough and incontrovertible certainty about the key issues of the Buddhist path.

Karl Brunnhölzl, The Center of the Sunlit Sky