Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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DGA
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Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby DGA » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:48 pm


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Grigoris
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Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby Grigoris » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:49 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Malcolm
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Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:54 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Paul
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Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby Paul » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:22 pm

Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

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Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby Fruitzilla » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:10 pm


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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:52 pm

Why does an apple suddenly fall from a branch at the very second that it does, and not one second earlier and not one second later? The wind, the Sun, the season, all these and millions of other factors interact, and these are all the causes that result in that apple dropping. Oh yes, and let's not forget gravity. This, in the simplest sense of the word, is karma.

Likewise, in the uncountable flickerings of mental activity that we regard as ongoing consciousness, millions of causes lead up to this very second, and continue to propel (what we imagine to be as a constant) us in the direction we are headed, unless we are suddenly steered into a different path.

If one has cancer in this lifetime, it is often more likely due to smoking than to being evil in a previous lifetime. This doesn't mean that the repercussions from actions in past lives are not still causing things to occur now, nor does it preclude the possibility that many of the activities which happened simultaneously, and in close relation to each other at one time are not also occurring together now, and for the same reasons that they did then.

But the 'self' that experiences these karmic effects is no more real than the 'self' that caused them.

But it is impossible to say that one's condition in this lifetime is fortunate or unfortunate, because you do not know what pleasures or miseries might have occurred had the situation been any different. We may not prefer to have the conditions we experience in this lifetime, but we do not know if they are better or worse than what they might have been.

There is the story before of a person who is rushing to the airport and misses his flight, and blames his misfortune on bad karma, of negative actions in the past. Maybe he was delayed because he was angry at someone and got into a fight and lost track of the time. But the plane crashes and everybody is killed. So, instead of being burned to death in a horrible crash, he is alive. So was missing the plane the result of positive or negative actions? the answer is too often a matter of convenience.

When people equate karma with reward and punishment of an independently existing "self", they miss the point. But when we understand it to be a constant reshuffling of the deck, then we can see where causes that we regard as negative produce results we regard as negative, and the causes that we regard as positive produce results we regard as positive, at least for the moment, and we experience these effects as very real because we experience this human realm as very real.

But unless we remember that these dualistic classifications are all projections of the imagination, we run the risk of using karma as a scapegoat.
Last edited by PadmaVonSamba on Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

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Malcolm
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Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:53 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:05 pm

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

platypus
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Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby platypus » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:19 pm


Enochian
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Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby Enochian » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:23 pm

Last edited by Enochian on Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.

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Paul
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Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby Paul » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:26 pm

Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby Nicholas Weeks » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:29 pm

A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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denice
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Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby denice » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:31 pm

the id.....or the ego is what seeks praise or what makes someone wonder if missing a doomed flight was good karma .
if in the now in this mindfull moment with ego cast aside for personal praise ,merit,good karmic flux .you care more about all other sentient beings with regard to your volition/action/reaction of this present moment that is a path well paved .just as truly loving another without expecting love back in return .
stilling ones mind & non attachment is letting go of ego of thinking of self(which correctly said by a previous post does not exist) you ,i ,me ,he, she labels ....and falsehoods.
oneness/sameness this was clearly shown in the diamond sutra chapter 1 .at the time for breaking the fast the world honored one put on his robe carrying his bowl and walked into the city going door to door to beg for his food according to rule.this done he returned to his retreat and took his meal quietly ,when he finished he put away his robe ,and begging bowl,washed his feet and arranged his seat and sat down . the buddha himself did what all others did ,his simple act of having his lunch showed "sameness" no ego .involved ...mindful of his every move he went to 6 doors ,not the doors that only had the "best food" etc. no discrimination ,which shows being mindful of offending .....that moment at each door . not as some plan that was premeditated for him to gain something awesome. some doors had spoiled food ,some food better ...all food eaten .that is all .
keeping the mind in perfect tranquility and free from any attachment to appearances."
"So I say to you -
This is how to contemplate our conditioned existence in this fleeting world:"
"Like a tiny drop of dew, or a bubble floating in a stream;
Like a flash of lightning in a summer cloud,
Or a flickering lamp, an illusion, a phantom, or a dream."
"So is all conditioned existence to be seen."
Thus spoke Buddha.

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Malcolm
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Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:37 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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PadmaVonSamba
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:46 pm

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

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Grigoris
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Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby Grigoris » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:00 am

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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denice
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Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby denice » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:00 pm

keeping the mind in perfect tranquility and free from any attachment to appearances."
"So I say to you -
This is how to contemplate our conditioned existence in this fleeting world:"
"Like a tiny drop of dew, or a bubble floating in a stream;
Like a flash of lightning in a summer cloud,
Or a flickering lamp, an illusion, a phantom, or a dream."
"So is all conditioned existence to be seen."
Thus spoke Buddha.

User avatar
Grigoris
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Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby Grigoris » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:38 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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denice
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Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby denice » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:14 pm

NO HARD FEELINGS EVER GREG :smile: IT'S ALL GOOD
keeping the mind in perfect tranquility and free from any attachment to appearances."
"So I say to you -
This is how to contemplate our conditioned existence in this fleeting world:"
"Like a tiny drop of dew, or a bubble floating in a stream;
Like a flash of lightning in a summer cloud,
Or a flickering lamp, an illusion, a phantom, or a dream."
"So is all conditioned existence to be seen."
Thus spoke Buddha.

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Reincarnation: A gift or a curse?

Postby Grigoris » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:22 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde


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