Destroying ancient Buddhist shrine for copper mine.

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Destroying ancient Buddhist shrine for copper mine.

Postby Indrajala » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:34 pm

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... ldozers.do

It might be called the battle of the Buddha's feet, a struggle to rescue one of the great Buddhist sites in Afghanistan.

The deadline has just been cut to a year for a team of Afghan and foreign archaeologists to rescue what they can from the sites of four shrines and temples round Mes Aynak - the Copper Mountain - in the plains of Logar, 25 miles south of Kabul.

The Chinese have signed a 20-year lease to make this the biggest open-cast copper mine in the world outside Africa. They plan to blow up the mountain and what is left of the Buddhist temples, hoping to dig as much as they can of the copper estimated to be worth £45 billion.

Initially, they're offering £800 million a year for the concession.

It is a race between Afghanistan's cultural past and commercial future. A team of 32 archaeologists is moving everything it can from the site, rediscovered in the Sixties, rebuilding one of the temples and putting the treasures in a custom-built museum.

They are helped by 900 local Afghan workers. Initially they were given three years, but under pressure from the Chinese, President Karzai has said the conservation must end for the blasting and mining to begin late next year.

"The site is very important because this was a main junction on the Silk Road. The monks came here and settled between the 5th century and the 8th century, lured by the copper," said Philippe Maquis, the leading French archaeologist at the site. He points to large pieces of handsome Buddhas, complete with swirling drapery - said to be inherited from the Greeks who came here with Alexander the Great.

A battered statue three times life-size shows the Buddha in "Pari Nirvana" - the stage before nirvana, the highest state of consciousness.
Next to the figure are two huge stone feet, more than four times life size. "These pieces are the same style and from the same time as the great Buddha statues of Bamiyan," said Mr Maquis.

The Buddhas of Bamiyan were blown up by the Taliban in March 2001. Mes Aynak has not suffered such outright vandalism, although Osama bin Laden moved his main training camp here in 1999. "I think we can really do it," said Dr Omar Sultan, 61, deputy culture minister, a renowned archaeologist. "If we get the funds and the team of 40 archaeologists, I get the job of essential conservation done by the deadline."

Looking across the monastery and the camp for Chinese workers, it is a scene of utter tranquillity. But in two years the mountain which has lured mystics, pilgrims, and entrepreneurs - often all three in one - for more than 5,000 years will be blasted to oblivion.

It is the starting point of yet another invasion of Afghanistan, this time by the Chinese in their relentless charge for the world's mineral riches.
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Re: Destroying ancient Buddhist shrine for copper mine.

Postby Indrajala » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:41 pm

This upset me reading it. They're going to destroy an ancient Buddhist temple to get at the copper. Firstly they destroy a jewel in humanity's history and then they're going to cause untold environmental damage with such a mine. They're converting a holy site into what will be a toxic hell hole.

Also given the amount of corruption that probably exists in Afghanistan, do you think much of the concession money will benefit the people?
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Re: Destroying ancient Buddhist shrine for copper mine.

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:47 pm

Huseng wrote:This upset me reading it. They're going to destroy an ancient Buddhist temple to get at the copper. Firstly they destroy a jewel in humanity's history and then they're going to cause untold environmental damage with such a mine. They're converting a holy site into what will be a toxic hell hole.

Also given the amount of corruption that probably exists in Afghanistan, do you think much of the concession money will benefit the people?



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Re: Destroying ancient Buddhist shrine for copper mine.

Postby Indrajala » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:57 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Huseng wrote:This upset me reading it. They're going to destroy an ancient Buddhist temple to get at the copper. Firstly they destroy a jewel in humanity's history and then they're going to cause untold environmental damage with such a mine. They're converting a holy site into what will be a toxic hell hole.

Also given the amount of corruption that probably exists in Afghanistan, do you think much of the concession money will benefit the people?



As I said, Samsara does not get worse, we merely become more sensitive to it.


And all the more reason to cultivate compassion.
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Re: Destroying ancient Buddhist shrine for copper mine.

Postby ronnewmexico » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:34 pm

I'm sorry...propoganda sends a shiver down my spine regardless of source. I really think it is the problem as much as anything is.

The article mentions the chinese as a mover of prime source to grab resources for the chinese.
I have followed this story a bit and this is not the situation.
Are payoffs being done and monies going to people and places inappropriately....certainly this is after all afghanistan.

Companies such as mineral retrieval companies all in China are part and parcel of the state by law as this government is called communist. Anything remotely related to public ownership such as minerals is by edict the state.
Truth of the matter these companies are as independent as any western based corporation. How you cut the deck of call a thing is the difference not in how they act. What we in the us call tax and sec regulation of a independent entity is called in china state influence over state owned property with minority private ownership....the result in both cases, the actuality is equal...private corporations exist, governments guide their actions in a limited manner

This company to my dim recollection yes technically is a ward of the state. But to my dim recollection of the last time I researched this(about six months ago the story keeps resurfacing) the company operates through a subsidiary in nature its mining operations.This is for all intents and purposes its parent company a regular company a mining company, who trades in things like stock.

They won a bid. Also to my dim recollection with others vying for contract. The contract is to develope the site for the afghans not to rape and steal the minerals.Will the site be developed and the copper be sold to China....sure China is right next door they provide the market for the materials.
The afghans wrote the contract and assigned the bid not the chinese. Did they payoff someone to get the contract this company....most assuredly, any company that won bid would have and all those that bid almost invariably did.

The article as in most propoganda is not directly offering untruths but slanted to one way truths. The article states repeatedly the Chinese..those bugaboos of the western civilization whose economy is increasing very very rapidly and as such displacing the wests dominance in things economic globally.
A position they have held for centuries. A position maintained by corruption force and dominance of the worst sort.

Is a Buddhist site being destroyed....yes, certainly and that is a tragedy.
The way this article is written is a tragedy as well. The tragedy of propoganda.
If a american or british company won the bid....not a word would be said.

So perhaps keep that in mind, the why and how of this story repeated endlessly in western media for purpose.
It is not the chinese it is a chinese company who won a bid to mine a site. A contract awarded by the afghan government.
Any american company cannot overtly payoff anyone to get a bid in another country by special law passed years ago by congress. As such since payoffs are absolutely required in afghanistan to do business american companies cannot do business.
So sour grapes they and the bristish complain in various manner this being one this propogandistic mention.....tell it to the choir is my response.

I don't want to claim any absolute authority on things in the Chinese business world but am not totally speaking on this issue out of my a@#.
To add thusly, I at present hold very small economic interest in four chinese companies through stock, one of which is a mineral extraaction company, and have held interest in at least 10 or so since January. Having bought and sold out of interest in those others. I have also held stake in the chinese currency which I don't hold at present. China is not communist, it is a totalitarian regime called communist for those in authority to maintain control.

As a aside Reuper M chief of newcorp fox news and all the rest, or his minons, should and may possibly be charged(this will be a test of sort as to how corrupted the american justice system has become under corporate interest) with offering bribes to government officials to obtain favor.
It is as stated..... against specific law in the US to do such a thing. Newscorp is listed in the US. Newscorp bribed police to obtain informations that helped their business interest in England.
It is obvious they broke US law...bets on will they be charged.....?
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Destroying ancient Buddhist shrine for copper mine.

Postby Chaz » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:45 pm

The archaeologist in me views this revulsion. The site at Mes Aynak is rich enough to keep archaeologists busy for decades - taking the time and devoting the resources that the site merits. As it stands it's nothing more that a mitigation project - to get the cultural assets and resources out of the ground and cataloged as quickly as possible. I've worked on teams doing just that sort of archaeology on sites that deserved far more care and attention than it got. It was quick, dirty and not much was learned that we didn't already know. This is what's happening at Mes Aynak and they've run out of time. Much of the history of early Buddhism, represented at this site will be lost. Forever. And it's a shame - perhaps even a crime.

The Buddhist in me is reminded that "the world and all it's inhabitants is impermanent". Nothing lasts. Nothing can last. Everything that arises, ceases. While the site is precious to some for it's history, it's precious to others for the mineral wealth beneath it. Today, those who seek only wealth prevail and there's not much that can be done. Mes Aynak becomes something else for us to let go of.
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Re: Destroying ancient Buddhist shrine for copper mine.

Postby ronnewmexico » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:17 pm

You won't read much about this anywhere except locally in local arizona newspapers.... I know this is a buddhist site and hence the concern over the issue but you do have question at times why is this a issue and another is not. Why so much media on one and not a bit on another?

Here is a link....http://azstarnet.com/news/science/environment/article_b241c906-1d01-5682-a21d-b96347c9c470.html

The story is about a proposed copper mine in arizona on not local but federal lands. The forest service says they cannot stop it as long as environmental laws are complied with.
The proposed copper mine will involve 87 sites which are considered eligible due to anthropological content for consideration on the national register of historical places. They contain several sites that are currently used and considered sacred to native americans in the area.
And I could go on and on.

IN regards to certain interests.... I will make this comment as completely made up to show point....Fictional.
If I represent things as true they may constitute, since I hold interest, a illegal maniipulation of stock, a federal offense enforceable by the SEC.
So...this is entirely made up to show point only...how things could be, any comparables to actual companies or peoples is for use of expediency and not to infer actual things anyone is doing...This is all hypothetical....

The parent company of the copper mine proposed is a company called Augusta Resources. Checking on Augusta Resources I find the company being given a big heads up by a talking head media financial analyst recently. This same media analyst I know as stateing never to invest in any chinese stocks with the exception of Bidu, and I suspect has connection of a certain group of investors currently shorting(betting against) chinese small cap stocks which include many miners, through a subsidiary rating service he has affiliation with. The SEC refuses to take any actions against the short sellers even though actions they are involved in amount to illegal manipulations. The SEC is a arm of government. So is the forest service. So this is how things work in this land and globe of corruption. Things are floated in media and bets on made on the movement of stocks.
Does anyone really care about anthropology or things religious...not a whit...how they can be used to generate money is all.
We....can perhaps look around at things.
What is their concern with us.....to help them in their nefarious aims.

Our US corporations control our government and largly use it for their aims only occasionally for the peoples aims.
The chinese government called communists is as the US government is, with some nuance in mode of operation and imperitive of action, fulfilling the peoples aim as in the US only when absolutely necessary.

Peoples generally hate things of complexity. It is far easier to say and for others to use...bad chinese government, good buddhists than it is to research and exemplify the nuance of stock manipulation and interest of copper mining and consumption on a global scale.
So we are abused and used by our inclinations as is the way in all things of all sorts.

Reminding me and I'm certain Husang will not mind this deviation from point....it is always important to remember..

..... ....
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Destroying ancient Buddhist shrine for copper mine.

Postby ronnewmexico » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:48 pm

This thing is so bad it is comical...

A link to a financial blog on who owns interest in the Augusta arizona mine product finds a company owned by the korean government has large partial interest in funding of Rosemount .... as well a a company in canada
http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/485861-proactive-investor/94132-augusta-resource-surges-after-securing-176-million-investment-for-rosemont-copper-project...


Why no headlines....korea destroying american native american shrine sites for copper mine ?
:smile:
You couldn't make this stuff up....

Seeking alpha is a israeli based site (the link) which is currently being personally sued by one chinese company for publication of materials which they say comprise stock manipulation.....
I own no interest in any copper mining companies at all.

Hard to follow this stuff, I know it being quite complicated. Anything complicated immediately looses interest. But it is necessary in things to look at these complications to make fair assesments as to what is going on.

We are looking more and more at just ourselves on the internet. This is called by some the filter bubble(Eli Pariser).
In the US it is allowing the creation of a insane class of peoples. A large group(about one third) of the population that has all their facts reinforced by groups who think as they do and will not allow other. They never actually see other. Screened from our awareness is what we do not want to see..by preference.

So they have become for all intents and purposes insane.
They are a third of the US voting public by most counts.
Don't become them is my motto. There is no hope is the reality.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Destroying ancient Buddhist shrine for copper mine.

Postby plwk » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:02 am

As Mao was reputed to have said, 'Let the past serve the present'.... :shrug:
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Re: Destroying ancient Buddhist shrine for copper mine.

Postby Indrajala » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:31 am

This isn't about China. The company that got the contract could just as well have been Russian. The Afghani government is the one who even considered allowing anyone to destroy the site for resource extraction.

Who knows what will be lost forever when they start detonating the charges.
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