Wisdom aspect in Tantra and Dzogchen

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Wisdom aspect in Tantra and Dzogchen

Postby kalden yungdrung » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:27 pm

Tashi delek Dzogchenpas,

In Tantra is the Wisdom aspect realised by a certain Tantra where the Sambhogakaya is also venerated and in the Bardo State is a spontaneous reborn possible.
Also are the emotions reversed into the related Wisdom aspect.

Questions:
- By what method are the emotions reversed into the Wisdom aspect according the path of Tantra and how realised?
- What is your opinion about how would be done the realisation in Dzogchen of the 5 Wisdoms, or when does this happen ?


Best wishes
KY
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: Wisdom aspect in Tantra and Dzogchen

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:03 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:[
- By what method are the emotions reversed into the Wisdom aspect according the path of Tantra and how realised?


The two stages.


- What is your opinion about how would be done the realisation in Dzogchen of the 5 Wisdoms, or when does this happen ?


Tregchő and tögal.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Wisdom aspect in Tantra and Dzogchen

Postby kalden yungdrung » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:12 pm

Namdrol wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:[
- By what method are the emotions reversed into the Wisdom aspect according the path of Tantra and how realised?

The two stages.

- What is your opinion about how would be done the realisation in Dzogchen of the 5 Wisdoms, or when does this happen ?

Tregchő and tögal.


Tashi delek,

Thanks for your replies.

See in the last qoute from you another order of following.

- Thoughts
- Dissolving of thoughts / or the elimination by realising their emptiness, done in the pre-Trekchod State. Karma seeds are here eliminated.
- Related Wisdom aspect to dissolved / eliminated thoughts, is self emanating
- Then starts the state of Rigpa first or the N.S. where then Trekchod is united in/with Thodgal.

What do you think about my sequential suggestion?


Mutosg marro
KY
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: Wisdom aspect in Tantra and Dzogchen

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:36 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
- Thoughts
- Dissolving of thoughts / or the elimination by realising their emptiness, done in the pre-Trekchod State. Karma seeds are here eliminated.



if this were the case, then there is no need for the rest.

In reality, karmic seeds or traces, are not eradicated by the above. If they were, one's impure vision would vanish.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Malcolm
 
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Re: Wisdom aspect in Tantra and Dzogchen

Postby kalden yungdrung » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:45 pm

Namdrol wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:
- Thoughts
- Dissolving of thoughts / or the elimination by realising their emptiness, done in the pre-Trekchod State. Karma seeds are here eliminated.



if this were the case, then there is no need for the rest.

In reality, karmic seeds or traces, are not eradicated by the above. If they were, one's impure vision would vanish.

N



Tashi delek,

Thanks for your attention + replies,

Inside Dzogchen some Master(s) adhere to the opinion, that if the emptiness aspect of the thought is cought / realised etc. then the karmic seed will be 108% destroyed. Ok my Dzogchen teachers told me to let dissolve the thoughts into their (empty) Nature. Well that is finally the seem result, but in our tradition is it "unknown" that the karmic seeds are destroyed.

In the NS does not exist dualisms etc. so it is karma free of thoughts.
I guess that the Bardo State is here the final experience about the dissolving of impure substances as a prove.

Best wishes
KY
Last edited by kalden yungdrung on Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: Wisdom aspect in Tantra and Dzogchen

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:50 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Inside Dzogchen some Master(s) adhere to the opinion, that if the emptiness aspect of the thought is cought / realised etc. then the karmic seed will be 108% destroyed.



Not all at once. Just gradually.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Malcolm
 
Posts: 11781
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Wisdom aspect in Tantra and Dzogchen

Postby kalden yungdrung » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:53 pm

Namdrol wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Inside Dzogchen some Master(s) adhere to the opinion, that if the emptiness aspect of the thought is cought / realised etc. then the karmic seed will be 108% destroyed.



Not all at once. Just gradually.

N


Tashi delek,

So when i understood it well then it must be done repeated e.g. the dissolving of the repeating thoughts, or only that specific thought(s) ?

Mutsog Marro
KY
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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kalden yungdrung
 
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm


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