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Homosexuality - Dhamma Wheel

Homosexuality

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible.
davcuts
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Homosexuality

Postby davcuts » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:16 pm

How does Theravada view homosexuality? Is it considered sexual misconduct? Are there any suttas that mention homosexuality?

Thanks,
David

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Will
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Will » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:21 pm

Once again Peter Harvey's book gives a good survey of the subject; here are some excerpts:

http://books.google.com/books?id=URZNk9 ... #PPA411,M1

His book is called An Introduction to Buddhist Ethics.

http://www.wisdom-books.com/ProductDetail.asp?PID=8759
A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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clw_uk
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby clw_uk » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:25 pm

The buddha didnt say that one sexuality is wrong and another is right. If it is homosexuality or hetrosexuality it doesnt matter, whichever it is it needs to be left behind if one wants to reach nibbana.

One of the precepts for lay people is "to refrain from sexual misconduct". This is a broad term which covers acts such as rape, pedophillia etc. If the sexual activity between lay people is based on mutual love then be it between same sex or opposite sex it cant be unwholesome.

However you will find that some of the pre-exisiting notions of certain cultures have crept in so there will be some thervadains in certain cultures who view homosexuality as sexual misconduct, others see it as a result of past kamma. However as i said this comes from pre-buddhist notions.

As a homosexual myself i never see any notion that the buddha condemed it itself, he just taught that any sexual passion in any form will lead to suffering and so should be abandoned.

Hope this was helpful :smile:

:namaste:
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Element

Re: Homosexuality

Postby Element » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:30 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:43 pm

Hi
what could be considered misconduct, the issue is in my opinion not even worth talking about as the topic of being sexually attracted to the same sex or sex in general isn't given much room if at all in the texts, besides the phrase sexual misconduct which I take to mean non-consensual or manipulated, I can not think of another referance


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Fede
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Fede » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:45 pm

This said, it must be added that HH the DL has said on many occasions that he is adhering to Tibetan Buddhist Doctrine. His own personal view is to neither condemn homosexuals, nor to exclude them from practice or involvement. But he has pointed out that no matter what his personal views, he cannot, single-handedly organise or orchestrate a change or amendment to the centuries-old docrtrine which underpins Tibetan Buddhism. His views and opinions, on a personal level, may contrast greatly with the Doctrine. But he has to go with the flow.
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Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

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retrofuturist
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:49 pm

Greetings,

To complement what has been said about "sexual misconduct" of which homosexuality is not explicitly specified, most of the Buddha's teachings were given to celibate monks, so the topic wasn't really all that relevant, as sexual anything was a no-no.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

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kc2dpt
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby kc2dpt » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:02 pm

- Peter


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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Individual » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:22 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


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kc2dpt
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby kc2dpt » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:54 am

- Peter


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jcsuperstar
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby jcsuperstar » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:26 am

ive only seen no sex with animals listed for monks and nuns, not lay people
prostitutes i believe are kosher (wasnt there even an enlightened prostitute? or is that only a mahayana story?) but there is some stipulation i believe
rape i think is covered under the 5 precepts
insest i dont think matters as long as it doesnt break any of the other conditions in the 5 precepts

basicly anything that is between willing adults is okay.
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cooran
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby cooran » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:34 am

Hello all,

Sexual Acts between consenting adults who are not promised to another, or under vows, are not sexual misconduct.

I believe one should look on bestiality as Sexual Misconduct - in the same way as one considers sex with minors ~ the misuse of power with a being who cannot obtain protection and does not fully understand the unwholesome nature of what is being done.

metta
Chris
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Element » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:11 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:28 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

davcuts
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby davcuts » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:44 pm

Do the suttas state anal and oral sex is sexual misconduct? What about masturbation do the suttas consider that sexual misconduct?

Thanks,
David

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:04 pm

I think there is a Mahayana sutra forbidding those acts, but not in the Pali Canon (except for monastics, who are celibate), which could suggest that they are acceptable for lay people, keeping in mind that not everything permissible is necessarily wholesome, as retro mentioned (addiction possibilities, for example).
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retrofuturist
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:05 pm

Greetings David,

They'd all be sexual misconduct for a monk.

None of them would be sexual misconduct for a lay follwer, taking into account the caveats mentioned above by others.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Jason
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Jason » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:12 am

Last edited by Jason on Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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davcuts
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby davcuts » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:05 am


rowyourboat
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:24 pm

He avoids unlawful sexual intercourse, abstains from it. He has no intercourse with girls who are still under the protection of father or mother, brother, sister, or relative; nor with married women, nor female convicts (?-or nuns); nor lastly with betrothed girls.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el225.html

-this is what I remember about the third precept- sorry not sure where in the suttas the quote comes from- doesnt seem to be easily available on the net- possibly a description of bodily misconduct.
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