Tradition in the West

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Sönam
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Tradition in the West

Postby Sönam » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:06 am

"Tibetan Buddhism" in the west has the particularity to condition the practitioner to integrate first a part of the Tibetan/Bön culture before he could start to realize what is that all about. This is simply because Tibetan Buddhism is an application of the Buddhadharma adapted to Tibet/Bön, not to westerners.
In that particular matter, Dzogchen tradition is much more adapted to the west when it is not so much wraped into classical tantrism traditions.

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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mindyourmind
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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby mindyourmind » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:36 am

We must be careful not to confuse culture and cultural accretions with tradition. The two are not always the same.

But in general I suppose I agree with you. A balancing act is called for : enough tradition but not too much of the unnecessary baggage. Therein lies the challenge.
Dualism is the real root of our suffering and all of our conflicts.

Namkhai Norbu

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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby zengammon » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:39 am

To me, Buddhism is not about Culture, though Culture tries endlessly to make it be. I think Ponlop Rinpoche hit the nail on the head:
"..my various experiences have led me to see the almost blinding influence of culture in our lives and thus the importance of seeing beyond culture altogether." (Rebel Buddha)

I agree. In the asian country I live and practice in, if I was going to point to the problems that currently exist in Buddhism here, I would point directly to Cultural influence--of the native culture--and this country has a long 'tradition'.

"seeing beyond culture altogether" right on.

john
(not a tibetan practitioner)

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby kalden yungdrung » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:58 am

Last edited by kalden yungdrung on Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The best meditation is no meditation

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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby Sönam » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:19 pm

That "westerner-adapted-form" should come first from our Tibetan masters, because they detain the lineage of "teachings and realizations", and this what has to be transmited at first, not the specific Tibetain or Westerner coloration.
finally westerners will participate to that adaptation in creating statistics in favor of one or another unlightened author from the past ... at first it is the role of Translators to adapt the dharma, they play a major role in that process ... the first generation of Tibetan kids educated in both languages should strongly help in that process, but how many are ready for ?

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby Sönam » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:30 pm

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby heart » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:05 pm

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby Fa Dao » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:44 pm

If we look to the history of Buddhism we will find that the adaptation from one culture to another seems to be a natural organic process. This is one of Buddhisms natural strengths over other religions...it adapts easily to other cultures. This, I believe, is due to its universal and humanistic message. Look for example at the foundational Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path. All beings suffer, all is due to grasping/attachment etc etc. This has to do with the human condition, not culture. Same goes when we go a little higher to the teachings of Shunyata/Emptiness...once again has more to do with Reality than culture. And so it goes right up to and through Vajrayana...the transformation of whatever arises into its Wisdom aspect. In every culture that Buddhism went to, regardless of the culture, it adapted and grew, and it will in the west as well. No worries.
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby pemachophel » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:49 pm

Vis a vis this thread, some might want to consider the following interview with Dungse Thinley Norbu:

http://www.tricycle.com/special-section ... u-rinpoche

In this interview, He is very critical of those who seek to "Westernize" Tibetan Buddhism. Whether you agree with His POV or not, I found it very thought-provoking (hopefully in a good way).
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby heart » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:01 pm

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Sönam
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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby Sönam » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:13 pm

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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kirtu
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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby kirtu » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:30 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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conebeckham
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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby conebeckham » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:35 pm

..and thank goodness for that, eh?

Buddha upset more than a few apple carts himself.


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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kirtu
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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby kirtu » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:42 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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kirtu
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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby kirtu » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:43 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby heart » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:36 pm

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Fa Dao
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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby Fa Dao » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:23 pm

To be clear...I am not talking about "westernizing" TB or any sect of Buddhism for that matter. Sadly in his interview HH Thinley Norbu was correct in saying that there are western teachers who are nihilistic in their approach. However I really dont see a problem with doing various liturgies/sadhanas in English. Excluding of course certain mantras etc that due to their vibrational quality need to be done in their original form. Unless one really wants to learn Tibetan (or Chinese or Japanese for that matter) it is pointless to have a person chant a liturgy/sadhana in a language that they have no idea what it is they are chanting. I mean seriously, whats the point?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:26 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby heart » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:33 pm

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

muni
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Re: Tradition in the West

Postby muni » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:35 pm



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