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One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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christopher:::
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby christopher::: » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:57 pm

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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LauraJ
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby LauraJ » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:08 am

I sincerely am not sectarian that I know of. I really appreciate, for example, HHDL's contributions to the Rime movement in Tibetan Buddhism.

That said, am I the only one who feels like, "If it's not broken, don't fix it?" I feel uncomfortable with the idea of too much change to accommodate any different region, culture, person, etc. where Buddhism takes root.

Please tell me if this sounds restrictive, rigid, or sectarian. But I honestly wouldn't want a Theravadan to change his/her thing to accommodate me, nor would I want to change my own religion to melt and blend with others. Different is fine, and it's interesting!

Kindly,
Laura



Conquer the angry man by love. Conquer the ill-natured man by goodness. Conquer the miser with generosity. Conquer the liar with truth. -The Dhammapada

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LauraJ
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby LauraJ » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:10 am




Conquer the angry man by love. Conquer the ill-natured man by goodness. Conquer the miser with generosity. Conquer the liar with truth. -The Dhammapada

meindzai
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby meindzai » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:19 am


meindzai
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby meindzai » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:25 am


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christopher:::
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby christopher::: » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:12 am

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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tiltbillings
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:43 am


Sanghamitta
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby Sanghamitta » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:19 am

So, if we except this, and by and large I do, the question becomes how in my case and in your case do we wake up ? Assuming for the sake of discussion that you are not fully awake..I certainly am not. What in my case and your case are the practices that waken rather than merely pacify, or that simply send us into fresh speculative thought or chasing abstract ideas. And how do we know that they , these practices are likely to lead to our awakening ? This it seems to me is where hands on instruction become vital. We it seems to me do not need to surrender to a guru, but we do need someone more experienced than us who can say " left a little, right a little, now try this ". Someone who can be our banker for a while handing us back our own resources as and when we need them. Someone who can see past our posturing and thinking and need to be seen in a particular way. Someone to whom we can say "Ok I have had enough of my reactive mind and its endless whining, I want out". In short we need flesh and blood Sangha a lot more than we need comparative religion.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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cooran
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby cooran » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:39 am

Hello Sanghamitta,

When you say Sangha - what do you mean? The Ordained Sangha? or did you really mean Parisa?

parisa [parisaa]:Following; assembly. The four groups of the Buddha's following that include monks, nuns, laymen, and laywomen
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/glossary.html#parisa

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby Sanghamitta » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:49 am

Hello Chris, yes you are right I should have been more clear. I meant both. The ordained Sangha, and important in a slightly different way, Parisa. And in my opinion invaluable as cyber Sangha is, it can never supplant either.

:anjali:
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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cooran
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby cooran » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:53 am

Yes, I agree. It took me many years of cyber-sanghas before I found a monastery close enough to attend with an Abbot for whom I have the greatest respect.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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tiltbillings
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:55 am


Sanghamitta
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby Sanghamitta » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:15 am

Surely, and it was in his capacity as a Theravadin vipassana teacher that I first came across his work. I can see that we cant simply pretend to be Thais or Sri Lankans ( or for that matter Japanese or Tibetan either ) and that a distictively western Buddhism is likely to emerge, (and in contrast to some I dont see that this will happen by marching stoutly into the cul-de-sac of rationalism and secularism, if they were the way forward the west would be Nibbana already ) I do suspect though that a refering back to reliable sources concerning what was actually taught by the Buddha will produce more fruit than abstract ideas of cohesion which might be commendable but owe more to an internalisation of the Gettysburg Address than to Buddhist pragmatism. It comes down imo to what works. And if what works for you is an amalgam of Zen and vipassana, or Guru Yoga and Kasina practice then fine. That certainly is the FWBO position. I know from experience that mixing doesnt work for me. It raises more questions than it answers.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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tiltbillings
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:37 am


nowheat
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby nowheat » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:10 am


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Aloka
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby Aloka » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:46 am

.

My own view is that if people want to stick with one tradition that's fine - and certainly I think its probably a good idea to try to understand one tradition properly first, before skipping about between the different traditions. One could end up getting confused and not really be practising any of them - whilst perhaps even attempting to be a 'jack of all trades' in a purely superficial way.(not sure if that expression is known outside of the UK !)

However, contradicting my previous statement to some extent, as an offline practitioner of Vajrayana for many years, I can honestly say that investigating Theravada recently and reading the Pali Canon is very pleasurable - and I am constantly delighted by what I'm discovering. I see this as enhancing my practice at the moment, rather than detracting from it.

I'm not saying that the different traditions should be mixed up into one pot called 'new buddhism' though, just that there should be general appreciation and understanding rather than rigidity.

.

Sanghamitta
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby Sanghamitta » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:26 pm

Depends what you mean by " understanding" a tradition Aloka. Surely the only way to truly understand a tradition is to follow it to its conclusion. At which point my guess would be that all rafts would be abandoned.
I am glad that you are benefitting from your exploration of the Theravada.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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christopher:::
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby christopher::: » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:27 pm

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

Sanghamitta
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby Sanghamitta » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:32 pm

I am unsure what you mean by "benefiting from a tradition as a form of practice ".

I am also unsure how to answer without seeming simply unfriendly. You see I cant talk for the other Theravadins on the forum Christopher, but I have studied the Mahayana Sutras in some depth. I have met Zen teachers and Lamas.
I have read quite a number of books including commentaries by well known Mahayana teachers including Nagarjuna and so on. Those things that you mention are all found in the Theravada. The 4nt's The 8 FNP. Dependant Origination, mindfulness etc etc .They are examined in great depth in the Pitakas and in the commentaries. I can see that a Zen Buddhist or Vajrayana student would get great benefit from going to the source of these teachings. But what, and dont misunderstand me, this is neither triumphalist nor rhetorical what would you see a Theravadin gaining from Zen or the Vajrayana ? You see I dont accept after examining the evidence that the historical Buddha taught anything remotely like Buddhadhatu or Bodhicitta, so what else is there that we can learn from ? Seriously ?
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

meindzai
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Re: One Dharma? Joseph Goldstein's Perspective

Postby meindzai » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:26 pm



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