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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:13 am 
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Does anyone here know which text by Karma Chagme is Rinpoche teaching now? I missed the beginning of the webcast yesterday, I thought it is going to be thugs rje chen po'i dmar khrid phyag rdzogs zung 'jug pa don ldan but apparently this is not the case.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:27 am 
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Aha sorry it is that text, but the english translation I have did not have some parts of the text, so it seemed that it is different text than the text Rinpoche is using.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:28 am 
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Yes, Chokyi Nyima's book is the simple short incomplete version but the 2 volumes by Wallace/Gyatrul is more or less complete and you might be referring to one of them. IIRC Karma Chagmey (Araga Asya) did it originally as an oral teaching too.

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Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:05 pm 
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I think it's the same as the one translated in Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche's book, been following along with it today after I realized that Karma Chagme = Raga Asya = Araga. :rolling:
The one by Gyatrul Rinpoche has a lot more in it, bunch of quotations from tantras that Rinpoche hasn't mentioned. And also it doesn't have the teaching on preliminaries.

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Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:23 pm 
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Chokyi Nyima's doesn't cover all and is not as refernced/scholarly but he is a great teacher in that too as usual and almost a complete great new teaching. Araga is the same person and a merged word like the word khenchen but more endearing like Atul(ku).Wallace/Gyatrul's is covered in two books not just one: A Spacious Path to Freedom: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Atiyoga plus Naked Awareness: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen.

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Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


Last edited by username on Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:36 pm 
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username wrote:
Chokyi Nyima's doesn't cover all and is not as refernced/scholarly but he is a great teacher in that too as usual and almost a complete great new teaching. Araga is the same person and a merged word like the word khenchen but more endearing like Atul(ku).Wallace/Gyatrul's is covered in two books not just one: A Spacious Path to Freedom: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Atiyoga plus Naked Awareness: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen.

Yes but I couldn't find what Rinpoche taught in the past two days anywhere in those two books by Gyatrul Rinpoche while it corresponded very well with Chokyi Nyima's book. Those two book also seem too extensive for just one week of teachings.

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Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:58 pm 
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Pero wrote:
username wrote:
Chokyi Nyima's doesn't cover all and is not as refernced/scholarly but he is a great teacher in that too as usual and almost a complete great new teaching. Araga is the same person and a merged word like the word khenchen but more endearing like Atul(ku).Wallace/Gyatrul's is covered in two books not just one: A Spacious Path to Freedom: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Atiyoga plus Naked Awareness: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen.

Yes but I couldn't find what Rinpoche taught in the past two days anywhere in those two books by Gyatrul Rinpoche while the it corresponded very well with Chokyi Nyima's book. Those two book also seem too extensive for just one week of teachings.


The Wallace/Gyatrul's more scholarly and reference based as in the old Tibetan/Indic tradition. Chokyi Nyima's is simple and incomplete but profoundly new in a way as he is a force of nature like Chagmey or ChNNR. I read all 3 some years ago but gave them away like numerous (hundreds of) other books when I found the ebook versions free online as I now prefer netbooks/e-readers/tablets/smart-phones each for different reasons. ChNNR's oral like the original is the easy way plus his amazing input and he is pointing out the whole time effortlessly.


Also: Karma Chagmey's fascintaing book on his child disciple, the utterly amazing Migyur Lingpa who died at 22, that became the scholar's guru: viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1085#p41396 Like a movie and you'll learn wonderful interesting details (about TB, terma, unseen beings, spiritual invisible clashes, etc.) not written about elsewhere.

_________________
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


Last edited by username on Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:03 pm 
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username wrote:
Pero wrote:
username wrote:
Chokyi Nyima's doesn't cover all and is not as refernced/scholarly but he is a great teacher in that too as usual and almost a complete great new teaching. Araga is the same person and a merged word like the word khenchen but more endearing like Atul(ku).Wallace/Gyatrul's is covered in two books not just one: A Spacious Path to Freedom: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Atiyoga plus Naked Awareness: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen.

Yes but I couldn't find what Rinpoche taught in the past two days anywhere in those two books by Gyatrul Rinpoche while the it corresponded very well with Chokyi Nyima's book. Those two book also seem too extensive for just one week of teachings.


The Wallace/Gyatrul's more scholarly and reference based as in the old Tibetan/Indic tradition. Chokyi Nyima's is simple and incomplete but profoundly new in a way as he is a force of nature like Chagmey or ChNNNR.

Why is it incomplete?

Quote:
Also: Karma Chagmey's fascintaing book on his child disciple, the utterly amazing Migyur Lingpa who died at 22, that became the scholar's guru: viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1085 Like a movie and you'll learn wonderful interesting details (about TB, terma, unseen beings, spiritual invisible clashes, etc.) not written about elsewhere.

I wanted to check this out but forgot. Thanks for reminding me.

_________________
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:30 pm 
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Well Chagmey didn't just compose 8 short poems but taught it orginally orally during a whole month like ChNNR but probably more than a couple of hours a day. Most of Chokyi Nyima's not large book is actually his own new amazing teaching (commentary) on the skeleton of the root text but his (based on orals too) and current ChNNR's are more profound than Wallace's large translation based on Gyatrul's scholarly commentary (plus prelim and supplementary chapter of the original) all of which is closer to the original which was much longer than all.

_________________
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:17 am 
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Seems that webcast is down today, does anyone else have the same experience?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:24 am 
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dzoki wrote:
Seems that webcast is down today, does anyone else have the same experience?


I started trying a few minutes late. It was down for many minutes. It's now working at 3:20 a.m. CDT for me. (20 minutes late late)

Hope the stream works for you. Gonna listen now.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:10 pm 
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Quote:
due to what seems like malfunction of our primary web hosting, you can follow the webcast using the following pages:

http://shangshunginstitute.com/webcast/video.php

or

http://shangshunginstitute.com/webcast/

This is just a temporary solution while we work with the supplier to re-establish the normal service.

The Webcast Team


Sönam

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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:14 pm 
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I immediately switched to the old streaming system and it was working even before he started speaking so I didn't miss anything. This happens often as the web page Video/Audio/Replay is Flash based. Simply download a good media (audio) stream player like winamp.com or VLC and use the following addresses. Not as good in auto-reconnect but windows media player works too. The LOW version stream has less quality but when the normal used to get overloaded it was the only working. Now many don't use this old system so it is less needed as the normal quality is mostly working.

When watching or listening live one should be respectful and behave properly as though a teacher is in the room.

http://www.freezecast.com:8000/audio
LOW quality:
http://www.freezecast.com:8000/audio_low

If it is a closed webcast use the following addresses and replace XXXXXX with your username for logging in and YYYYYY with your password, separated by : between the two.
http://XXXXXX:YYYYYY@www.freezecast.com:8000/audio
LOW quality:
http://XXXXXX:YYYYYY@www.freezecast.com:8000/audio_low

_________________
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:29 pm 
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username wrote:
Chokyi Nyima's doesn't cover all and is not as refernced/scholarly but he is a great teacher in that too as usual and almost a complete great new teaching. Araga is the same person and a merged word like the word khenchen but more endearing like Atul(ku).Wallace/Gyatrul's is covered in two books not just one: A Spacious Path to Freedom: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Atiyoga plus Naked Awareness: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen.


My understanding is that Karma Chagme wrote several texts on this subject. One is translated by Erik in Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche's book, and one is translated by Wallace in Gyatrul Rinpoche's book and a very detail one is commented on by Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche but this book lack a translation of the root text.No idea which text ChNN is using, could be even an other text. Chökyi Nyima rInpoche didn't add anything new in his commentary that I am aware of, feel free to explain yourself username.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:06 pm 
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Rinpoche is teaching from 'phags pa thugs rje chen po'i dmar khrid phyag rdzogs zung 'jug gi nyams len snying po bsdus pa. This is the root text commented on in Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche's book.

The Tibetan is available from here: http://www.dharmadownload.net/pages/english/Texts/texts_0016.htm.

R


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:50 pm 
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heart wrote:
username wrote:
Chokyi Nyima's doesn't cover all and is not as refernced/scholarly but he is a great teacher in that too as usual and almost a complete great new teaching. Araga is the same person and a merged word like the word khenchen but more endearing like Atul(ku).Wallace/Gyatrul's is covered in two books not just one: A Spacious Path to Freedom: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Atiyoga plus Naked Awareness: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen.


My understanding is that Karma Chagme wrote several texts on this subject. One is translated by Erik in Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche's book, and one is translated by Wallace in Gyatrul Rinpoche's book and a very detail one is commented on by Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche but this book lack a translation of the root text.No idea which text ChNN is using, could be even an other text. Chökyi Nyima rInpoche didn't add anything new in his commentary that I am aware of, feel free to explain yourself username.

/magnus


You are wrong again magnus! If you have a problem and think I made a mistake then write to Wallace and Gyatrul Rinpoche and tell them to correct their comment in their book that they are redoing the same text Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche (published by Erik) did and tell them to correct their basic mistake by publishing a new edition and errata! However the scholars and the great Gyatrul are not wrong as we all know. I am surprised you are not familiar with your guru's first major book and teachings and make such a basic error!

Anyway on the second point you are also wrong. From Nalanda days to day, every commentary on a root text means a NEW subjective hermeneutical interpretation and that is what a commentary means, adding to the pool by personal POV realizations and new inter-textual references. Again, extremely basic error. Free!

_________________
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:27 pm 
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username wrote:
You are wrong again magnus! If you have a problem and think I made a mistake then write to Wallace and Gyatrul Rinpoche and tell them to correct their comment in their book that they are redoing the same text Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche (published by Erik) did and tell them to correct their basic mistake by publishing a new edition and errata! However the scholars and the great Gyatrul are not wrong as we all know. I am surprised you are not familiar with your guru's first major book and teachings and make such a basic error!

No, he isn't. The comment in the Gyatrul book is actually that it isn't the same text but a more elaborate one.
The text in that book is called thugs rje chen po'i dmar khrid phyag rdzogs zung 'jug thos ba don ldan - Naked instruction of the great compassionate one on the union of mahamudra and dzogchen, meaningful to hear (more or less).
While the text Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is teaching from now and what Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche's book is about is 'phags pa thugs rje chen po'i dmar khrid phyag rdzogs zung 'jug gi nyams len snying po bsdus pa - Concise essential practice of the naked instruction of the noble great compassionate one on the union of mahamudra and dzogchen (more or less).

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Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:49 pm 
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Pero wrote:
No, he isn't. The comment in the Gyatrul book is actually that it isn't the same text but a more elaborate one.
The text in that book is called thugs rje chen po'i dmar khrid phyag rdzogs zung 'jug thos ba don ldan - Naked instruction of the great compassionate one on the union of mahamudra and dzogchen, meaningful to hear (more or less).
While the text Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is teaching from now and what Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche's book is about is 'phags pa thugs rje chen po'i dmar khrid phyag rdzogs zung 'jug gi nyams len snying po bsdus pa - Concise essential practice of the naked instruction of the noble great compassionate one on the union of mahamudra and dzogchen (more or less).


It was about five years ago I read the two volumes and a couple of years before that I read Chokyi Nyima's. I just checked and technically you're right, although that is just a more elaborate root text version on his subject as they explain than the other. Nevertheless I apologize to magnus on the first point.

_________________
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:16 am 
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username wrote:
heart wrote:
username wrote:
Chokyi Nyima's doesn't cover all and is not as refernced/scholarly but he is a great teacher in that too as usual and almost a complete great new teaching. Araga is the same person and a merged word like the word khenchen but more endearing like Atul(ku).Wallace/Gyatrul's is covered in two books not just one: A Spacious Path to Freedom: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Atiyoga plus Naked Awareness: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen.


My understanding is that Karma Chagme wrote several texts on this subject. One is translated by Erik in Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche's book, and one is translated by Wallace in Gyatrul Rinpoche's book and a very detail one is commented on by Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche but this book lack a translation of the root text.No idea which text ChNN is using, could be even an other text. Chökyi Nyima rInpoche didn't add anything new in his commentary that I am aware of, feel free to explain yourself username.

/magnus


You are wrong again magnus! If you have a problem and think I made a mistake then write to Wallace and Gyatrul Rinpoche and tell them to correct their comment in their book that they are redoing the same text Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche (published by Erik) did and tell them to correct their basic mistake by publishing a new edition and errata! However the scholars and the great Gyatrul are not wrong as we all know. I am surprised you are not familiar with your guru's first major book and teachings and make such a basic error!

Anyway on the second point you are also wrong. From Nalanda days to day, every commentary on a root text means a NEW subjective hermeneutical interpretation and that is what a commentary means, adding to the pool by personal POV realizations and new inter-textual references. Again, extremely basic error. Free!


Please feel free to explain what Rinpoche been adding? I have no idea what you consider new in Rinpoche's commentary.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:06 am 
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heart wrote:
Please feel free to explain what Rinpoche been adding? I have no idea what you consider new in Rinpoche's commentary.

/magnus


So now you know what a commentary means, are you saying his commentary is nothing new and a complete copy of a previous one by someone else?

_________________
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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