Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment is like trying to grab space. Space has a name but no form. It's not something you can pick up or put down. And you certainly can't grab it. Beyond this mind you'll never see a Buddha. The Buddha is a product of your mind. Why look for a Buddha beyond this mind?
-Bodhidharma
-Bodhidharma
- LastLegend
- Posts: 5408
- Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
So start cultivating this mind.KwanSeum wrote:Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment is like trying to grab space. Space has a name but no form. It's not something you can pick up or put down. And you certainly can't grab it. Beyond this mind you'll never see a Buddha. The Buddha is a product of your mind. Why look for a Buddha beyond this mind?
-Bodhidharma
It’s eye blinking.
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
So, Buddha is the product of mind. The mind is the product of what?
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
- LastLegend
- Posts: 5408
- Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
The mind is empty.Astus wrote:So, Buddha is the product of mind. The mind is the product of what?
It’s eye blinking.
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
Then how can it produce anything?LastLegend wrote:The mind is empty.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
- LastLegend
- Posts: 5408
- Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
Because it is empty, it can and not at the same time.Astus wrote:Then how can it produce anything?LastLegend wrote:The mind is empty.
It’s eye blinking.
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
If it can produce something from nothing, that is a violation of causality. If it can't produce anything it is not true that the Buddha is made by mind. If both are true then both faults apply.LastLegend wrote:Because it is empty, it can and not at the same time.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
- LastLegend
- Posts: 5408
- Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
How can there be truth and false when it is empty?Astus wrote:If it can produce something from nothing, that is a violation of causality. If it can't produce anything it is not true that the Buddha is made by mind. If both are true then both faults apply.LastLegend wrote:Because it is empty, it can and not at the same time.
How can there be caused or not caused if it is empty?
It’s eye blinking.
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
Emptiness and cause and effect are not contradictory. It is only because phenomena are empty that cause and effect are possible.The mind is empty.
Then how can it produce anything?
"It's as plain as the nose on your face!" Dottie Primrose
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
So with calling it empty you can avoid actually verbalising it. That's sneaky.LastLegend wrote:How can there be truth and false when it is empty?
How can there be caused or not caused if it is empty?
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
Then is mind within the realm of causality or not? And buddhas? Emptiness is equated with dependent origination by Nagarjuna. Could we say then that mind is a result of causes and conditions just as any common thing? If so, buddhas are nothing but cheap tales for kids.Jinzang wrote:Emptiness and cause and effect are not contradictory. It is only because phenomena are empty that cause and effect are possible.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
Really? Bodhisattvas are cheap tales for kids? Paul Rusesabagina, Irena Sendler, Dr. Martin Luther King, Cheif Joseph, Thich Nhat Hahn - these are cheap tales for kids?Astus wrote:Could we say then that mind is a result of causes and conditions just as any common thing? If so, buddhas are nothing but cheap tales for kids.
Pure mind, perfect mind, holding the precepts purely - these are cheap tales for kids?
Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
Check again the reasoning. Buddha-mind being only a conditional phenomenon invalidates buddhahood.kirtu wrote:Really? Bodhisattvas are cheap tales for kids? Paul Rusesabagina, Irena Sendler, Dr. Martin Luther King, Cheif Joseph, Thich Nhat Hahn - these are cheap tales for kids?Astus wrote:Could we say then that mind is a result of causes and conditions just as any common thing? If so, buddhas are nothing but cheap tales for kids.
Pure mind, perfect mind, holding the precepts purely - these are cheap tales for kids?
Kirt
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
Check again the reasoning - we have visible manifestations of bodhisattvas even if they aren't Buddhist and their actions come from their minds and their intentions.Astus wrote:Check again the reasoning. Buddha-mind being only a conditional phenomenon invalidates buddhahood.kirtu wrote:Really? Bodhisattvas are cheap tales for kids? Paul Rusesabagina, Irena Sendler, Dr. Martin Luther King, Cheif Joseph, Thich Nhat Hahn - these are cheap tales for kids?Astus wrote:Could we say then that mind is a result of causes and conditions just as any common thing? If so, buddhas are nothing but cheap tales for kids.
Pure mind, perfect mind, holding the precepts purely - these are cheap tales for kids?
Kirt
Thought is a conditioned phenomena, Buddha activity (conditioned) comes from Buddha-mind which can be seen in Huayen and Cittamatrin thought as possessing reality (or as being real).
Bodhisattva activity and Buddhahood are real because they ease or eliminate the real experience of ultimately illusory suffering of apparently real sentient beings who also don't truly exist and just abide in the mode of sentient beings. But such verbage does not cool their thirst.
Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
Manifestations are the work of the deluded minds of sentient beings grasping at forms and sounds. What activity is there then? So it turns out that whether it is conditioned or unconditioned, buddhas and bodhisattvas are illusions. If the real buddha is the mind what is there to conceive as buddha or mind? Nothing really. Free from ideas all words and phrases can be used at one's will. That is buddha activity. Conditioned and unconditioned are labels to assist the readers. This is not negating the conditioned but saying that if buddha-mind is understood as something conditioned it will be just another concept. And if we understand it is unconditioned it reveals that all forms of ideas are still within the realm of conditioned. Then it is not logical to say that any activity of a buddha is conditioned.kirtu wrote:Check again the reasoning - we have visible manifestations of bodhisattvas even if they aren't Buddhist and their actions come from their minds and their intentions.
Thought is a conditioned phenomena, Buddha activity (conditioned) comes from Buddha-mind which can be seen in Huayen and Cittamatrin thought as possessing reality (or as being real).
Bodhisattva activity and Buddhahood are real because they ease or eliminate the real experience of ultimately illusory suffering of apparently real sentient beings who also don't truly exist and just abide in the mode of sentient beings. But such verbage does not cool their thirst.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
- Madhyama Pratipada
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:33 pm
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
"It is because you are running about seeking everywhere and cannot put your heart at rest that the patriarchs say 'My, the fellow with his head on his shoulders is looking for his head!' When on hearing this you turn your own light in upon yourself, and do not seek for anything special, you will know that in your body and heart you do not differ from the patriarchs and Buddhas."
-Linji/Rinzai
-Linji/Rinzai
sarvopalambhopaśamah prapañcopaśamah śivah
na kimcitkasyacitkaścid dharmo buddhena deśitah
MMK 25.24
na kimcitkasyacitkaścid dharmo buddhena deśitah
MMK 25.24
- Quiet Heart
- Posts: 269
- Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 10:57 am
- Location: Bangkok Thailand
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
--------------------------------------Madhyama Pratipada wrote:"It is because you are running about seeking everywhere and cannot put your heart at rest that the patriarchs say 'My, the fellow with his head on his shoulders is looking for his head!' When on hearing this you turn your own light in upon yourself, and do not seek for anything special, you will know that in your body and heart you do not differ from the patriarchs and Buddhas."
-Linji/Rinzai
Excellant. I happen to like Linji/Rinzai as he seems to be speaking directly to me and my particular (and maybe perculiar) nature.
But I know many who call themself a "Buddhist" might think I'm "weird". That doesn't bother me all that much, anyhow.
Shame on you Shakyamuni for setting the precedent of leaving home.
Did you think it was not there--
in your wife's lovely face
in your baby's laughter?
Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it?
from - Judyth Collin
The Layman's Lament
From What Book, 1998, p. 52
Edited by Gary Gach
Did you think it was not there--
in your wife's lovely face
in your baby's laughter?
Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it?
from - Judyth Collin
The Layman's Lament
From What Book, 1998, p. 52
Edited by Gary Gach
- LastLegend
- Posts: 5408
- Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
You are trying to verbalize the mind?Astus wrote:So with calling it empty you can avoid actually verbalising it. That's sneaky.LastLegend wrote:How can there be truth and false when it is empty?
How can there be caused or not caused if it is empty?
It’s eye blinking.
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
That's what is called "teaching" and "studying" in Buddhism.LastLegend wrote:You are trying to verbalize the mind?
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
-
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:02 pm
Re: Trying to find a Buddha or enlightenment
If you are looking for any sort of benefit, what you are doing most of the time, as far as i can see, is called "out smarting yourself". And if its just yourself, thats ok, its your choice.Astus wrote:That's what is called "teaching" and "studying" in Buddhism.LastLegend wrote:You are trying to verbalize the mind?