Namdrol wrote:adinatha wrote:
Perhaps yours doesn't. Ours does. And my teacher got another outline of the pith instructions from His Holiness Taklung Matul Rinpoche and theirs has the same breakdown.
The inferior intellect thing is in a previous section.
The verses are ordered differently in the various schools.
Not so. The part about the winds is for medium capacity, and karmamudra for inferior capacity.
Then according to you all Indian mahasiddhas are inferior capacity since they all used karmamudra for realization. Tibetan siddhas are somehow superior since the Kadampas discarded it. Even Milarepa and Marpa are inferior, according you, since they used karmamudra for realization.
I'm not making this up. Don't shoot the messenger.
That is not the same thing. Besides, the name Thogal and separating it out from Tregcho is sort of a new fangled invention.
Right, you heard that from me. Still, there is no thogal in the dohas.
I did hear that from you. Then I read that in the Oral Instructions of Zhang Zhung Nyen Gyu that visions and natural state are not practiced separately. Only two of thirty something masters in Zhang Zhung even mention visions.
Why not? Padmavajra was circa 700-800 CE and so was Saraha I.
Padmavakra is mid 9th century -- 150 years after Saraha I. Saraha I did not have a human guru.
No the commentator is presenting it that Saraha was Padmakara's guru. Padmakara is another name for Padmasambhava.
That might be a nice point for discussion, and/or might impact what someone is practicing at lineage X, but I don't agree there are different 'od gsal types.
That's your bad, then.
Not really. Just because a yoga practice has the name 'od sgal, doesn't mean there are different 'od sgal. There is one singular reality.
We have already discussed this. As I pointed out to you, Gyalwa Yangonpa points out that Mahamudra is superior to 'od gsal because in the state of 'od gsal as described in sarma tantras and the six yogas of Naropa, there are no appearances.'od gsal is being used in different ways as relates to methods. I'm talking beyond two stages here.
Too late to change your tune.
This supports what I'm saying.
Dzogchen has been inventive. Then, there's this stuff Saraha says in his Doha.
You are seeing mirages.
Quit talking about the black snake. I mean rope. Re mirages. I don't think so. Seems like a lot of "scriptural authority" is just so-called authority. The experience lineage talks real differnt.
I don't know.
All four schools have the Sahaja Mahamudra lineage. That is why a discussion of it is included in the Vima Nyinthig.
Sounds great on paper. In practice, it's impossible Nyingthig offers something above Sahaja Mahamudra, because it encompasses every appearance conditioned and unconditioned. Working with pure appearances is to get to the innate. The innate dissolves all appearances; so there's no advantage to working with some special kind.