Present course with Nanmkhai Norbu Rinpoche

[dzoki]

Does anyone here know which text by Karma Chagme is Rinpoche teaching now? I missed the beginning of the webcast yesterday, I thought it is going to be thugs rje chen po'i dmar khrid phyag rdzogs zung 'jug pa don ldan but apparently this is not the case.

[dzoki]

Aha sorry it is that text, but the english translation I have did not have some parts of the text, so it seemed that it is different text than the text Rinpoche is using.

[username]

Yes, Chokyi Nyima's book is the simple short incomplete version but the 2 volumes by Wallace/Gyatrul is more or less complete and you might be referring to one of them. IIRC Karma Chagmey (Araga Asya) did it originally as an oral teaching too.

[Pero]

I think it's the same as the one translated in Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche's book, been following along with it today after I realized that Karma Chagme = Raga Asya = Araga.
The one by Gyatrul Rinpoche has a lot more in it, bunch of quotations from tantras that Rinpoche hasn't mentioned. And also it doesn't have the teaching on preliminaries.

[username]

Chokyi Nyima's doesn't cover all and is not as refernced/scholarly but he is a great teacher in that too as usual and almost a complete great new teaching. Araga is the same person and a merged word like the word khenchen but more endearing like Atul(ku).Wallace/Gyatrul's is covered in two books not just one: A Spacious Path to Freedom: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Atiyoga plus Naked Awareness: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen.

[Pero]

Chokyi Nyima's doesn't cover all and is not as refernced/scholarly but he is a great teacher in that too as usual and almost a complete great new teaching. Araga is the same person and a merged word like the word khenchen but more endearing like Atul(ku).Wallace/Gyatrul's is covered in two books not just one: A Spacious Path to Freedom: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Atiyoga plus Naked Awareness: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen.

Yes but I couldn't find what Rinpoche taught in the past two days anywhere in those two books by Gyatrul Rinpoche while it corresponded very well with Chokyi Nyima's book. Those two book also seem too extensive for just one week of teachings.

[username]

Chokyi Nyima's doesn't cover all and is not as refernced/scholarly but he is a great teacher in that too as usual and almost a complete great new teaching. Araga is the same person and a merged word like the word khenchen but more endearing like Atul(ku).Wallace/Gyatrul's is covered in two books not just one: A Spacious Path to Freedom: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Atiyoga plus Naked Awareness: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen.

Yes but I couldn't find what Rinpoche taught in the past two days anywhere in those two books by Gyatrul Rinpoche while the it corresponded very well with Chokyi Nyima's book. Those two book also seem too extensive for just one week of teachings.

The Wallace/Gyatrul's more scholarly and reference based as in the old Tibetan/Indic tradition. Chokyi Nyima's is simple and incomplete but profoundly new in a way as he is a force of nature like Chagmey or ChNNR. I read all 3 some years ago but gave them away like numerous (hundreds of) other books when I found the ebook versions free online as I now prefer netbooks/e-readers/tablets/smart-phones each for different reasons. ChNNR's oral like the original is the easy way plus his amazing input and he is pointing out the whole time effortlessly.


Also: Karma Chagmey's fascintaing book on his child disciple, the utterly amazing Migyur Lingpa who died at 22, that became the scholar's guru: viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1085#p41396 Like a movie and you'll learn wonderful interesting details (about TB, terma, unseen beings, spiritual invisible clashes, etc.) not written about elsewhere.

[Pero]

Chokyi Nyima's doesn't cover all and is not as refernced/scholarly but he is a great teacher in that too as usual and almost a complete great new teaching. Araga is the same person and a merged word like the word khenchen but more endearing like Atul(ku).Wallace/Gyatrul's is covered in two books not just one: A Spacious Path to Freedom: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Atiyoga plus Naked Awareness: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen.

Yes but I couldn't find what Rinpoche taught in the past two days anywhere in those two books by Gyatrul Rinpoche while the it corresponded very well with Chokyi Nyima's book. Those two book also seem too extensive for just one week of teachings.

The Wallace/Gyatrul's more scholarly and reference based as in the old Tibetan/Indic tradition. Chokyi Nyima's is simple and incomplete but profoundly new in a way as he is a force of nature like Chagmey or ChNNNR.

Why is it incomplete?

Also: Karma Chagmey's fascintaing book on his child disciple, the utterly amazing Migyur Lingpa who died at 22, that became the scholar's guru: viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1085 Like a movie and you'll learn wonderful interesting details (about TB, terma, unseen beings, spiritual invisible clashes, etc.) not written about elsewhere.

I wanted to check this out but forgot. Thanks for reminding me.

[username]

Well Chagmey didn't just compose 8 short poems but taught it orginally orally during a whole month like ChNNR but probably more than a couple of hours a day. Most of Chokyi Nyima's not large book is actually his own new amazing teaching (commentary) on the skeleton of the root text but his (based on orals too) and current ChNNR's are more profound than Wallace's large translation based on Gyatrul's scholarly commentary (plus prelim and supplementary chapter of the original) all of which is closer to the original which was much longer than all.

[dzoki]

Seems that webcast is down today, does anyone else have the same experience?

[Kunzang]

Seems that webcast is down today, does anyone else have the same experience?

I started trying a few minutes late. It was down for many minutes. It's now working at 3:20 a.m. CDT for me. (20 minutes late late)

Hope the stream works for you. Gonna listen now.

[Sönam]

due to what seems like malfunction of our primary web hosting, you can follow the webcast using the following pages:

http://shangshunginstitute.com/webcast/video.php

or

http://shangshunginstitute.com/webcast/

This is just a temporary solution while we work with the supplier to re-establish the normal service.

The Webcast Team

Sönam

[username]

I immediately switched to the old streaming system and it was working even before he started speaking so I didn't miss anything. This happens often as the web page Video/Audio/Replay is Flash based. Simply download a good media (audio) stream player like winamp.com or VLC and use the following addresses. Not as good in auto-reconnect but windows media player works too. The LOW version stream has less quality but when the normal used to get overloaded it was the only working. Now many don't use this old system so it is less needed as the normal quality is mostly working.

When watching or listening live one should be respectful and behave properly as though a teacher is in the room.

http://www.freezecast.com:8000/audio
LOW quality:
http://www.freezecast.com:8000/audio_low

If it is a closed webcast use the following addresses and replace XXXXXX with your username for logging in and YYYYYY with your password, separated by : between the two.
http://XXXXXX:YYYYYY@www.freezecast.com:8000/audio
LOW quality:
http://XXXXXX:YYYYYY@www.freezecast.com:8000/audio_low

[heart]

Chokyi Nyima's doesn't cover all and is not as refernced/scholarly but he is a great teacher in that too as usual and almost a complete great new teaching. Araga is the same person and a merged word like the word khenchen but more endearing like Atul(ku).Wallace/Gyatrul's is covered in two books not just one: A Spacious Path to Freedom: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Atiyoga plus Naked Awareness: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen.

My understanding is that Karma Chagme wrote several texts on this subject. One is translated by Erik in Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche's book, and one is translated by Wallace in Gyatrul Rinpoche's book and a very detail one is commented on by Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche but this book lack a translation of the root text.No idea which text ChNN is using, could be even an other text. Chökyi Nyima rInpoche didn't add anything new in his commentary that I am aware of, feel free to explain yourself username.

/magnus

[ratna]

Rinpoche is teaching from 'phags pa thugs rje chen po'i dmar khrid phyag rdzogs zung 'jug gi nyams len snying po bsdus pa. This is the root text commented on in Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche's book.

The Tibetan is available from here: http://www.dharmadownload.net/pages/english/Texts/texts_0016.htm.

R

[username]

Chokyi Nyima's doesn't cover all and is not as refernced/scholarly but he is a great teacher in that too as usual and almost a complete great new teaching. Araga is the same person and a merged word like the word khenchen but more endearing like Atul(ku).Wallace/Gyatrul's is covered in two books not just one: A Spacious Path to Freedom: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Atiyoga plus Naked Awareness: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen.

My understanding is that Karma Chagme wrote several texts on this subject. One is translated by Erik in Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche's book, and one is translated by Wallace in Gyatrul Rinpoche's book and a very detail one is commented on by Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche but this book lack a translation of the root text.No idea which text ChNN is using, could be even an other text. Chökyi Nyima rInpoche didn't add anything new in his commentary that I am aware of, feel free to explain yourself username.

/magnus

You are wrong again magnus! If you have a problem and think I made a mistake then write to Wallace and Gyatrul Rinpoche and tell them to correct their comment in their book that they are redoing the same text Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche (published by Erik) did and tell them to correct their basic mistake by publishing a new edition and errata! However the scholars and the great Gyatrul are not wrong as we all know. I am surprised you are not familiar with your guru's first major book and teachings and make such a basic error!

Anyway on the second point you are also wrong. From Nalanda days to day, every commentary on a root text means a NEW subjective hermeneutical interpretation and that is what a commentary means, adding to the pool by personal POV realizations and new inter-textual references. Again, extremely basic error. Free!

[Pero]

You are wrong again magnus! If you have a problem and think I made a mistake then write to Wallace and Gyatrul Rinpoche and tell them to correct their comment in their book that they are redoing the same text Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche (published by Erik) did and tell them to correct their basic mistake by publishing a new edition and errata! However the scholars and the great Gyatrul are not wrong as we all know. I am surprised you are not familiar with your guru's first major book and teachings and make such a basic error!

No, he isn't. The comment in the Gyatrul book is actually that it isn't the same text but a more elaborate one.
The text in that book is called thugs rje chen po'i dmar khrid phyag rdzogs zung 'jug thos ba don ldan - Naked instruction of the great compassionate one on the union of mahamudra and dzogchen, meaningful to hear (more or less).
While the text Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is teaching from now and what Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche's book is about is 'phags pa thugs rje chen po'i dmar khrid phyag rdzogs zung 'jug gi nyams len snying po bsdus pa - Concise essential practice of the naked instruction of the noble great compassionate one on the union of mahamudra and dzogchen (more or less).

[username]

No, he isn't. The comment in the Gyatrul book is actually that it isn't the same text but a more elaborate one.
The text in that book is called thugs rje chen po'i dmar khrid phyag rdzogs zung 'jug thos ba don ldan - Naked instruction of the great compassionate one on the union of mahamudra and dzogchen, meaningful to hear (more or less).
While the text Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is teaching from now and what Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche's book is about is 'phags pa thugs rje chen po'i dmar khrid phyag rdzogs zung 'jug gi nyams len snying po bsdus pa - Concise essential practice of the naked instruction of the noble great compassionate one on the union of mahamudra and dzogchen (more or less).

It was about five years ago I read the two volumes and a couple of years before that I read Chokyi Nyima's. I just checked and technically you're right, although that is just a more elaborate root text version on his subject as they explain than the other. Nevertheless I apologize to magnus on the first point.

[heart]

Chokyi Nyima's doesn't cover all and is not as refernced/scholarly but he is a great teacher in that too as usual and almost a complete great new teaching. Araga is the same person and a merged word like the word khenchen but more endearing like Atul(ku).Wallace/Gyatrul's is covered in two books not just one: A Spacious Path to Freedom: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Atiyoga plus Naked Awareness: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen.

My understanding is that Karma Chagme wrote several texts on this subject. One is translated by Erik in Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche's book, and one is translated by Wallace in Gyatrul Rinpoche's book and a very detail one is commented on by Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche but this book lack a translation of the root text.No idea which text ChNN is using, could be even an other text. Chökyi Nyima rInpoche didn't add anything new in his commentary that I am aware of, feel free to explain yourself username.

/magnus

You are wrong again magnus! If you have a problem and think I made a mistake then write to Wallace and Gyatrul Rinpoche and tell them to correct their comment in their book that they are redoing the same text Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche (published by Erik) did and tell them to correct their basic mistake by publishing a new edition and errata! However the scholars and the great Gyatrul are not wrong as we all know. I am surprised you are not familiar with your guru's first major book and teachings and make such a basic error!

Anyway on the second point you are also wrong. From Nalanda days to day, every commentary on a root text means a NEW subjective hermeneutical interpretation and that is what a commentary means, adding to the pool by personal POV realizations and new inter-textual references. Again, extremely basic error. Free!

Please feel free to explain what Rinpoche been adding? I have no idea what you consider new in Rinpoche's commentary.

/magnus

[username]

Please feel free to explain what Rinpoche been adding? I have no idea what you consider new in Rinpoche's commentary.

/magnus

So now you know what a commentary means, are you saying his commentary is nothing new and a complete copy of a previous one by someone else?