Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby Dhondrub » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:58 pm

A whole new level of ludicrousness going on here. :crazy:
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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:12 pm

Anyone who tries to evaluate what happened in terms of Prince Siddhartha leaving his family, and to judge that action based on today's standards really has a small view of things. Or, maybe they support arranged marriage. I don't know. Marriage today isn't even what it was 100 years ago, much less, 2,500 years ago and in a different civilization!

What people miss is the importance of the story.
What Siddhartha had was the perfect life, yet he wasn't satisfied. He gave up traditional life and he had to crawl out of his comfort zone. And the family is very important, and also in terms of royalty and passing things from parents to children, the family line and so forth, this leaving home really symbolizes quite a lot. He really had to make a hard choice about what to do. It's about commitment, and the point is that he was as committed to finding an end to suffering as a person should be committed to his or her family. All beings became his family. So, it's not really accurate or fair to just write him off as a deadbeat dad.

Likewise, many single men today study dharma, and even if they do not become monks, they live the life of the wandering mendicant, or as a 'dharma bum' or whatever, free and easy and don't really have to go past a theoretical experience. But getting married can take you right out of that one-man buddha realm. having somebody else in your face all the time, or raising kids, that can really test you. All of a sudden you can't spend all day doing 'dharma practice' and you have to feed the baby and make more money. Then you really find out if all that 'dharma practice' is a string of beads hanging around your neck or if it is running through your veins.

Single is not better, and married is not better. it depends on the individual and it depends on not getting too cozy.
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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:26 pm

The married life of the bodhisattva.
you may have to scroll down to read the caption.
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The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby gnegirl » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:04 pm

The zen proverb comes to mind:

before enlightenment, 'chop wood, carry water'
after enlightenment, 'chop wood, carry water'

its the mind, not the situation
"Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise." --Surangama Sutra

Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby LastLegend » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:06 pm

gnegirl wrote:The zen proverb comes to mind:

before enlightenment, 'chop wood, carry water'
after enlightenment, 'chop wood, carry water'

its the mind, not the situation


Can you chop wood for me?
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NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)
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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby caveman » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:28 pm

conebeckham wrote:
caveman wrote:I hope we can have a polite yet critical discussion on this topic.


I especially liked the word "polite" here.....

So there it is, can you be fully enlightened without facing all the challenges that married life in Samsara and Nirvana can throw at you?



Can I? I dunno. But I think we've indicated that Buddha faced "all the challenges that married life in Samsara and Nirvana can throw at you," though I'm not even sure I know what that means anymore!!

"Honey, would you pick up some milk at the store on your way home from work?"

"I CAN'T, Dammit, I've got this enlightenment to get to!!!" :spy:



Conebeckham stated that "I think we've indicated that buddha faced - all the challenges that married life in Samsara and Nirvana can throw at you"

How by running out the back door of the palace in the middle of the night and not having the balls to face your Father, Wife and new born son.

By spending 7 years with dope smoking Shivites?

Please don't tell that your defense for it lacks simple logic.

Buddha faced nothing not even his own cowardice.
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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby Sönam » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:30 pm

certainly Cindarella or Sleeping beauty is much more romantic ... lovely samsara!

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By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby Dhondrub » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:31 pm

caveman wrote:
conebeckham wrote:
caveman wrote:I hope we can have a polite yet critical discussion on this topic.


I especially liked the word "polite" here.....

So there it is, can you be fully enlightened without facing all the challenges that married life in Samsara and Nirvana can throw at you?



Can I? I dunno. But I think we've indicated that Buddha faced "all the challenges that married life in Samsara and Nirvana can throw at you," though I'm not even sure I know what that means anymore!!

"Honey, would you pick up some milk at the store on your way home from work?"

"I CAN'T, Dammit, I've got this enlightenment to get to!!!" :spy:



Conebeckham stated that "I think we've indicated that buddha faced - all the challenges that married life in Samsara and Nirvana can throw at you"

How by running out the back door of the palace in the middle of the night and not having the balls to face your Father, Wife and new born son.

By spending 7 years with dope smoking Shivites?

Please don't tell that your defense for it lacks simple logic.

Buddha faced nothing not even his own cowardice.



dude- good for you us buddhists dont have Fatwa
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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby Sönam » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:33 pm

Then the wedding of the Prince and Rosamond was held with all splendour, and they lived very happily together until their lives' end.

:toilet:
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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby conebeckham » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:39 pm

caveman wrote:How by running out the back door of the palace in the middle of the night and not having the balls to face your Father, Wife and new born son.

By spending 7 years with dope smoking Shivites?

Please don't tell that your defense for it lacks simple logic.

Buddha faced nothing not even his own cowardice.


Do you even read this thread? You are just NOT GETTING IT, whether you've read it or not. Also, you should brush up on the definition of the word "polite," if you're going to use it.
I'm done here, it's useless.
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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby caveman » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:47 pm

Dhondrub wrote:
dude- good for you us buddhists dont have Fatwa
[/quote]

Did you just threaten me a Bonpo with implied death!!!
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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:52 pm

caveman wrote:
[vitriol deleted]




You could have just been honest from the beginning that you had a sectarian Bonpo agenda of criticizing the Buddha.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

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he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby conebeckham » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:53 pm

...but that would not have been "polite," now, would it?
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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby alpha » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:55 pm

And on the label it says "HELL"

The anger burned for 5 hours and it produced 3 pages.
Maybe Mucho Demdrug and Sangwa Ngangring can purify this place.....
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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby caveman » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:57 pm

conebeckham wrote:No, Caveman, he did not.
His comment is directed at the fact that your tradition does not have a "fatwa," it says nothing about anything happening to you....he's relieved that you, and your tradition, don't have a stipulation to kill heretics and apostates.

Please explain to us how you find that a threat against yourself, personally?


His comment was " Good for you "US" buddhist do not have fatwas (death sentences).

He said US buddhist don't have fatwas, US US US Buddhists, not Bon but Buddhist don't have fatwas.

Sorry but I got it and now the moderators and administrators of this site have it.
Last edited by caveman on Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby conebeckham » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:58 pm

Yes, you are correct, and I misread. But I'd already reported the thread, and I've edited my post.
Good luck to you.
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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby Caz » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:01 pm

Namdrol wrote:
caveman wrote:
[vitriol deleted]




You could have just been honest from the beginning that you had a sectarian Bonpo agenda of criticizing the Buddha.

N


Its sounded that way after about the first page.
Why would there be a need to debate Buddhas full enlightenment when this is where Buddhist teachings come from unless as a self cherishing religious comparative of how my beleif is superior to others. :thinking:
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:06 pm

alpha wrote:And on the label it says "HELL"

The anger burned for 5 hours and it produced 3 pages.
Maybe Mucho Demdrug and Sangwa Ngangring can purify this place.....



Maybe Bonpos with chips on their shoulders about the Buddha should take it somewhere else.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby caveman » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:10 pm

Namdrol wrote:
alpha wrote:And on the label it says "HELL"

The anger burned for 5 hours and it produced 3 pages.
Maybe Mucho Demdrug and Sangwa Ngangring can purify this place.....



Maybe Bonpos with chips on their shoulders about the Buddha should take it somewhere else.


Like a "Bon" website, :oops: like this "Bon" website.

No Bonpos welcome, is that what you are saying.

I have no chip on my shoulder. I was just asking fellow Bonpos a question for a good debate.
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Re: Was the Buddha "FULLY" enlightened?

Postby conebeckham » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:18 pm

Caveman-
This isn't a "Bon" website, it's a Dharma website, which includes a Bon subforum, as Bon is a Tibetan Dharma tradition.

Your original post, and in fact every post you've made since, except this last one, didn't specify that you were looking for only Bonpos to respond. And that, quite frankly, would be silly. In fact, I think it's disingenuous. And I think you've done your tradition a great disservice with your words, and with your general attitude, here on this thread.

As far as I'm concerned, Bonpo subforum is a great thing, but restricting access or discussion to Bonpos only is not.
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