Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

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Luke
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Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby Luke » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:19 pm

I've noticed that "Dzogchen" has become the buzzword all over Buddhist forums. Many people seem to have leaped into attending Dzogchen seminars without having completed much preparation.

Although Dzogchen originated in the Nyingma and Bön schools, it seems that nowadays many practioners from all lineages also practice Dzogchen (like H.H. the Dalai Lama).

My question is "What is the traditional viewpoint about when a person is truly ready to practice Dzogchen?" My understanding is that in the Nyingma school, a person should have gained at least some accomplishment in the preceding 8 yanas. I'm not sure about when the Bönpo teach Dzogchen, but I believe that they have 9 yanas as well. I think the Kagyu only study Dzogchen after they have been practicing Mahamudra for a while. I would assume that the Sakyapa and Gelugpa would only seek out Dzogchen teachings only after they have received the advanced teachings of their lineages.

What do you all think about the spread of Dzogchen teachings in the west? Are too many people rushing into it without the necessary foundation? Are webcast empowerments enough?

A visiting lama once remarked that "a very tall house won't do you any good if you don't already have a ladder."

tatpurusa
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Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby tatpurusa » Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:07 am

This depends on the teacher and on the individual practiotioner.

Both Lopön Tenzin Namdak and Chögyal Namkhai Norbu accept seemingly anyone coming to them.
But this might be just an appearence. I remember ChNNR saying once that even today, Dzogchen is
the most secret teaching of all. Those not ready for it will just come to some teachings, stay without
understanding it and eventually stay away again.

There are many other Dzogchen masters who have a much more traditional attitude and teach only ngöndro
for years to the newcomers.
But even in this case it does not have to be all the 8 other vehicles. It depends all on the individual practitioner.

Both Lopön Tenzin Namdak and Norbu Rinpoche do teach specific other practices even to those who have recieved Dzogchen teachings in order to help eliminating certain specific obstacles.

Dzogchen is a completely different system, a nongradual way, it does not depend on the results of other vehicles.
But it depends on the capacity of the practitioner.

In Tibet the situation is very different. There young monks (still children) come to the monasteries without even having gone to school before, without even knowing to read and write. They have to learn all these things at first in the monasteries.

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Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby heart » Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:31 am

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

Josef
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Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby Josef » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:33 pm


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Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby heart » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:30 am

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby Virgo » Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:07 am

Many things have changed.

Buddhism isn't practiced the way it was 1,000 years ago in Tibet any longer. Not only have the times changed, but the places has changed, the cultures, societies, and belief systems of the people practicing, and so on, have changed. From an astrological standpoint, we are actually in a completely different astrological age at this point than we were at that point, nevermind other more faster changing astrological aspects. The beings taking the teachings have also changed and the content and influence on their chitta are not the same as they once were. Therefore Dzogchen teachings are given to more people these days. In fact, there are actually Tibetan predictions which predict that this teaching will open up and become more widespread at this time.

Of course this does not mean that other approaches are no longer usueful or inferior in any way at all-- they are just as effective and usefull as ever. This is simply a time when Dzogchen is also practiced a lot.

Virgo Moon

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Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby heart » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:03 pm

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:47 pm

I would agree with Magnus. And I feel this is true in regards to webcasts, though I am in no way giving advice. But a connection to a teacher is so important.

Kindly,
Laura

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Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby Josef » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:50 pm


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Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:20 pm


Josef
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Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby Josef » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:31 pm


Buddhanataka

Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby Buddhanataka » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:16 am

When are you ready for Dzogchen Atiyoga?

In the ultimate sense there is no sense in being ready or not, becaue the fundamental bodhicitta is ever-present and you are already enlightened from primordial times;

However in the worldly sense, as is stated in the tantra (Kunbyed Gyalpo) one must not be shown the Atiyoga path as long as one clings to the doctrine of cause and effect. Because then one will disparage the Dzogchen Atiyoga teaching as being heretical and will abandon their own bodhi nature and miss enlightenment for a long time. Therefore it is said that one who is able to transcend the view of cause and effect can be introduced to the view of Dzogchen which is the direct revelation of the true nature of reality which transcends cause and effect in the three periods of time.

Of course, the Dzogcen lineage upholds all 9 vehicles of Buddhism from Hinayana monk (sravakayana) all the way up to the highest practice of Atiyoga. So it clearly cannot hurt to be familiar with many Buddhist scriptures of all the various vehicles, with a clear preference for the Mahayana sutras of the Bodhisattva vehicle and the outer and inner tantras of the Vajrayana.
Although in the final analysis the inner tantras (=Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga Dzogchen) are the vehicles unique to Nyingma, so the focus falls squarely on these scriptures, with the Atiyoga of Dzogchen the final stage, with the twin practices of Cutting Through and Courageously Striding Over leading to the ultimate fruition of enlightenment in the true nature of mind which has always been present and is not an object of intellectual realization as such. In that sense, it is neither cause nor effect, and this is namely the view that one needs to adopt in order to be ready for Dogchen Atiyoga.

If you want a good, superb overview of the Nyingma approach you should study Dudjom Rinpoche's "The Nyingma School of Tibetan Buddhism" where the doctrinal exegises is laid bare. You will find everything you need to know in his compassionate and lucid expose of the highest spiritual path.

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Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby heart » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:15 am

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

Buddhanataka

Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby Buddhanataka » Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:27 pm


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Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby heart » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:14 pm

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

Buddhanataka

Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby Buddhanataka » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:27 pm


Josef
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Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby Josef » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:48 pm


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Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby Mr. G » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:07 pm


Buddhanataka

Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby Buddhanataka » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:27 pm

Last edited by Buddhanataka on Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Dzogchen: When are you ready for it?

Postby Virgo » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:45 pm



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