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 Post subject: recalling ...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:58 am 
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EHMAHO! Once more gather round and listen, my children! It is absurd to try to purify external objects, which are insubstantial appearances, the natural forms of emptiness. They are empty from the beginning, like the reflection of the moon in water.

It is absurd to apply forceful antidotes to thoughts and concepts, and internal objects. They vanish by themselves without a trace. It is absurd to try to improve mind's manifestations with your renunciation, your practice of self-improvement, or your hopes and fears. They are free from the beginning and primal awareness by nature.

Do not dress up Knowledge, which is naked clarity itself, in the clothes of elaborate intellectual analysis. Rather, rest in relaxation in that magnificent sameness that is without partiality. Stay free and easy, without a care in the world, in the place where there is no residue to perception.

No matter what thoughts arise in that space, know them to be the natural radiance of impartial and spontaeously existent Knowledge. Then we are able to let go of the mental residue of perception. Abandoning the manifestations of mind to vast all-embracing space as the play of elusive, effervescent, shimmering reality, we immediately reach the plenum of Kuntu Zangpo's dynamic mind.

The foregoing is called the universal, self-liberating yoga of the naturally accomplished and originally liberated Great Perfection.

Although we do not move, we arrive at the Buddha's seat. Although we do not practice, the goal is spontaneously accomplished. Although we do not abandon emotional defilements, they are purified as they stand. Thus our Mind is the same as the dynamic minds of the great Lamas, and following in their footsteps our karma is exhausted.

You should understand the enormous significance of this, my sons and daughters.
By the generosity of the wise old man Choki Gyelpo, I, Tsokdruk Rangdrol, attained the spontaneously originated, dynamic mind of Vagrant Non-action.

Lama Shabkar - The Flight of Tha Garuda - Song 18

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By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:05 am 
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This non-action may be crucial, but it is not understood by some. Everything is already done, but they say, "I must work hard!" Everything has been liberated from the beginning, but they say, "I want to be free!" Everything is at rest from the beginning, but they say, "I want peace of mind!" The mind is in meditation from the beginning, but they say, "I must meditate!" The vision exists from the beginning, but they say, "I must see it!" The goal is attained from the first, but they say, "I must reach it!"

People who trust in an analytical view are learned, but they know only the taste of dead words and divisive concepts. They claim understanding, but it is an idle boast. They meditate, but their meditation consists of mental structures. They examine the mind, but cling to duality. They are successful, but it is all in samsara.

It is certain that the intellectual with an analytical view of reality has no connection with the Heart-essence of the Great Perfection, the Dzogchen Nyingthig. No specific activity is necessary, for action does not lead to the exhaustion of karmic activity. It is beyond reckoning in terms of action and inaction.

In the non-meditation beyond meditation, meditation is detrimental. Beyond vision, where there is nothing to see, upon what can you focus? Beyond seeking, where there is no seeking, there is no finding. Knowledge is direct recognition of the here and now.

How ridiculous that someone should have this explained and not listen. Such a person has no connection with Dzogchen.
When you observe something that is arising in a dynamic mind of immense space, utterly pure from the beginning, then there is no duality of samsara and nirvana.

To have taken this Mind as the subject of my song will indubitably please the Victorious Buddhas of the past, present and future.

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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:56 am 
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http://members.upnaway.com/~bindu/anant ... aindex.htm

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Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:18 pm 
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Has anyone ever read the other translation of the Flight of the Garuda by Erik Pema Kunzang? If so how do the two translations compare? I have tried to find it but so far no luck. Would love to do a song by song contrast and compare.

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"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche


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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:32 pm 
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Fa Dao wrote:
Has anyone ever read the other translation of the Flight of the Garuda by Erik Pema Kunzang? If so how do the two translations compare? I have tried to find it but so far no luck. Would love to do a song by song contrast and compare.


I've read Erik's translation many times but unfortunately it's no longer in print. If I come across a copy I'll let you know. In comparison, I think it is markedly superior to the Dowman translation. Just my opinion...

Chris

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--Dudjom Rinpoche, "Nectar for the Hearts of Fortunate Disciples. Song No. 8"


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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:34 pm 
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Fa Dao wrote:
Has anyone ever read the other translation of the Flight of the Garuda by Erik Pema Kunzang? If so how do the two translations compare? I have tried to find it but so far no luck. Would love to do a song by song contrast and compare.


I have, Eriks translation does stand out as a brilliant star although he made it maybe 25 years ago.

/magnus

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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:34 pm 
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Fa Dao wrote:
Has anyone ever read the other translation of the Flight of the Garuda by Erik Pema Kunzang? If so how do the two translations compare? I have tried to find it but so far no luck. Would love to do a song by song contrast and compare.


I've had the lung for it in English, and also have a recording of it. It's better IMHO.

You can get the Erik version from Rangjung Yeshe publications, but it's a restricted title.

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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:45 pm 
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has one of you some time to publish that song 18 by Erik?, so we can see the difference ...

Sönam

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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:09 pm 
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I am wondering if this is the same piece as 'The Great Garuda In Flight' - (from Keith Dowman's 'Eye of the Storm' book)?


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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:44 pm 
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no it's not ... one is from Lama Shabkar and the other are transmissions of Vairotsana

Sönam

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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Last edited by Martijn on Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:23 am 
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Tashi delek,

In our library of our Lha Kang Yungdrung Rignga Ling, we have the book: " The flight of the Garuda" by Keith Dowman.
Of course would it be great to have the so called by you the better translation.

Shabkar Lama do i see as a realised Dzogchenpa and is honoured worldwide by all Dzogchenpas.

My questions to you:

- In what specific points do the 2 translation realy differ greatly?
- Could that in brief explained by the ones who did read the 2 versions. if possible?
- Our foundation wants if possible, obtain that book of Eric Pema, in what kind of possible form.
- A reward is possible


Best wishes
KY

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THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD


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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:47 am 
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Last edited by Martijn on Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:51 am 
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kalden yungdrung wrote:
Tashi delek,

In our library of our Lha Kang Yungdrung Rignga Ling, we have the book: " The flight of the Garuda" by Keith Dowman.
Of course would it be great to have the so called by you the better translation.

Shabkar Lama do i see as a realised Dzogchenpa and is honoured worldwide by all Dzogchenpas.

My questions to you:

- In what specific points do the 2 translation realy differ greatly?
- Could that in brief explained by the ones who did read the 2 versions. if possible?
- Our foundation wants if possible, obtain that book of Eric Pema, in what kind of possible form.
- A reward is possible


Best wishes
KY


I don't like Keith Dowmans translations, I can't say why it is just a feeling. Never managed to read to the end any of his translations no matter how interested I have been to read it. So, I never did a comparison between the two versions. Anyway, you can buy Erik's text here http://www.kubera.dk/product.asp?product=814 .

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:51 am 
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Martijn wrote:
One can see the differences in the two versions by looking up song three and four from the Rangjung Yese Publications edition in the book Quintessential Dzogchen, chapter 18 'Songs of Examining' at google books and compare it to the dowman version which is also available at google books.

To obtain the book one has to have 'Lung' by a root guru in the Mahamudra and Dzogchen lineage. Look at the publishers website http://www.rangjung.com/ for more information.


Tashi delek,

Thanks for the message.

- Is Lung in Dzogchen also good enough / sufficient? This because i am Dzogchenpa.
- What is then the difference between Mahamudra and Dzogchen Lung?


Best wishes
KY

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THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD


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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:01 am 
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heart wrote:

I don't like Keith Dowmans translations, I can't say why it is just a feeling. Never managed to read to the end any of his translations no matter how interested I have been to read it. So, I never did a comparison between the two versions. Anyway, you can buy Erik's text here http://www.kubera.dk/product.asp?product=814 .

/magnus


I can't say why ... KD has made some good translations that have a sense !

Sönam

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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:05 am 
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I would have appreciate to have the Erik's song 18 translation to compare it to the one from KD ... I suppose to reproduce one song as a sample is not a break of samaya.

Sönam

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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:19 am 
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Last edited by Martijn on Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:21 am 
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Sönam wrote:
I would have appreciate to have the Erik's song 18 translation to compare it to the one from KD ... I suppose to reproduce one song as a sample is not a break of samaya.

Sönam



Tashi delek,

Well those comparisations will costs a lot of time so i did ask for a personal quick overview from one of the experts regarding this topic.
But i see it is not easy at all to be brief, never mind. :(

Did already order it in Danmark and hope that as a Dzogchenpa i could obtain it. :D

Best wishes
KY

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THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD


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 Post subject: Re: recalling ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:48 am 
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Martijn wrote:
Have you read the new and revised Dutch translation that is available via http://www.karnak.nl/ 'De vlucht van de Garoeda' by Robert Hartzema? It is recommended.


The french translation is realized, it will be published in january ... but translating KD requires to use KD's translation.

Sönam

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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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