An open heart; poison into nectar

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An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:56 pm

“If grief or anger arises,
Let there be grief or anger.
This is the Buddha in all forms,
Sun Buddha, Moon Buddha, Happy Buddha, Sad Buddha.
It is the universe offering all things
to awaken and open our heart.”
-Jack Kornfield

I think this is certainly easier said than done, but the words are very wise. Is your heart awakened and opened when you experience grief? I guess the answer is yes, but it feels more like a cracked or burning heart. But being open to love, compassion, joy, etc., that feels like an open heart.

How to integrate? How to turn the peacock's poison into nectar?

Kindly,
Laura
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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby ronnewmexico » Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:59 pm

Why do you leave out anger in your comment....is a persons heart opened with anger?

It seems not. The point to me as I personally interpret it is....all emotional states are inconsequential. Yes they may teach us things but what they may teach us is in the main....they largly matter not.

Poison becomes nectar nectar becomes poison in the minds eye with every thought. It being not to stop such things as thought but to stop putting great values to such things.

To offer a differing interpretaion though yours may be considered as equally valid depending on point of view, and certainly to thank you for offering it.

If I were to split hairs I would object to his characteristic of the universe offering anything to us. Seems more HIndu than Buddhist though I suppose many Buddhists hold that view(and not to state it is a inferior view). To my view we offer through our emotional states vehicles to understand through what is closest to us our mind, what exactly is. There is no subject opening our hearts or teaching object about it. What appears is us not other. No universe only us.
Splitting hairs. Poetically it is very nice.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby Luke » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:39 pm

LauraJ wrote:How to turn the peacock's poison into nectar?

By practicing meditations that do this daily! Various lojong and tantric meditations can achieve this, but if a person does not practice them daily, then he or she will never be able to utilize them in difficult circumstances.

Tonglen is the classic example of turning "poison into nectar." Relax and breath normally. Observe your mind. If you find any negative thoughts, visualize that you breathe them in as a cloud into your body, and that once inside you, they disappear and are purified. Then breathe out positive energy, visualized as bright light, to all sentient beings (this includes yourself). At first, this will just be pretending, but over time, you will gain the ability to transform your state of mind, at least when you're mildly upset. This illustrates how thoughts are illusions which can be transformed with a bit of effort.

Another classic lojong meditation is to think that you are not the only being in the world who is experiencing this negative emotion, whatever it may be. This causes you to feel compassion for all the other beings who are feeling exactly like you are right now. Then you can visualize that you are taking this negative emotion into yourself from all the beings in the world (including yourself) who presently feel this way and that once inside you, it disappears and you purify all these beings of this emotion.

So the key is basically not to fight or repress the emotion, but to let it be and to work with it and transform it skillfully over time.

Certain tantric sadhanas can transform negative qualities as well, but I'm not too familiar with these.

Of course, simply resting in rigpa and experiencing thoughts as self-liberated would be best, but most of us haven't gotten there yet.
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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby ground » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:20 am

LauraJ wrote:How to integrate? How to turn the peacock's poison into nectar?

Perhaps simply not to try to turn it into nectar? Isn't this just the old habit of wanting to change things into what one likes?

Kind regards
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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby muni » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:40 pm

Maybe I add yoga with teacher: Kundalini by dynamic exercises and breathing.

http://www.cit-sakti.com/story/kundalin ... chapt4.htm
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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby BFS » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:41 pm

LauraJ wrote:“If grief or anger arises,
Let there be grief or anger.
This is the Buddha in all forms,
Sun Buddha, Moon Buddha, Happy Buddha, Sad Buddha.
It is the universe offering all things
to awaken and open our heart.”
-Jack Kornfield

I think this is certainly easier said than done, but the words are very wise. Is your heart awakened and opened when you experience grief? I guess the answer is yes, but it feels more like a cracked or burning heart. But being open to love, compassion, joy, etc., that feels like an open heart.

How to integrate? How to turn the peacock's poison into nectar?

Kindly,
Laura


Teachings on how to:

Image


Peacock in the Poison Grove
Introduction to Mental Training Practice
Geshe Lhundub Sopa, Author
Michael J. Sweet, Author_|_Leonard Zwilling, Author

Geshe Sopa offers insightful commentary on two of the earliest Tibetan texts that focus on mental training. Peacock in the Poison Grove presents powerful yogic methods of dispelling the selfish delusions of the ego, and maintaining the purity of our motives. Geshe Sopa's lucid explanations teach how we can fight the egocentric enemy within by realizing the truth of emptiness, and by developing a compassionate, loving attitude toward others.


Born in Tibet in 1923, Geshe Lhundub Sopa is both a spiritual master and a respected academic. He moved to the United States in 1967 to teach in the Buddhist Studies Program at University of Wisconsin-Madison, where he is now professor emeritus. He founded the Deer Park Buddhist Center in Oregon, Wisconsin. He lives in Madison, Wisconsin.


"Geshe Lhundub Sopa's character and learning have inspired me from the start of my practice of Buddhism. As is evidenced by his being the first among the top rung of geshes graduating his year, he is a vertiable well-spring of knowledge. His name means "Spontaneity and Patience." His training was so sustained and deep that his kindness is spontaneous. His patience over these many decades has been brought to perfection as only wisdom can do. Read this book and feel the presence of one of the world's great hearts and minds."
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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:56 pm

BFS caught my reference ;)
Thanks all, these are great replies.

:namaste:
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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:13 pm

TMingyur wrote:
LauraJ wrote:How to integrate? How to turn the peacock's poison into nectar?

Perhaps simply not to try to turn it into nectar? Isn't this just the old habit of wanting to change things into what one likes?

Kind regards


This is where I was going with my post. It seems to me that to accept is very good. It's excellent in fact. To embrace pain with an open heart? It's a marvelous goal. But realistically, in your own life, doesn't accepting feel like pretty good work?

Jack Kornfield also said something to the effect of, "It takes courage to truly die in each moment and be reborn in the next."

Being truly present, for the joy or pain, is work in and of itself. My spiritual friends seem to do this. They seem to accept and be present for all of it. Actually lovingly embracing pain, I don't know.

I know we have vajrayana practices to address this. But I mean the question in a sort of real life, actual practical kind of way. But of course all responses are welcomed!

Kindly,
Laura
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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby ground » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:48 pm

LauraJ wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
LauraJ wrote:How to integrate? How to turn the peacock's poison into nectar?

Perhaps simply not to try to turn it into nectar? Isn't this just the old habit of wanting to change things into what one likes?

Kind regards


This is where I was going with my post. It seems to me that to accept is very good. It's excellent in fact. To embrace pain with an open heart? It's a marvelous goal. But realistically, in your own life, doesn't accepting feel like pretty good work?

Yes and no. The challenge is accepting without accepting. As long as something that is wrong occurs there still is something wrong even if "I" do not get "involved".

LauraJ wrote:Jack Kornfield also said something to the effect of, "It takes courage to truly die in each moment and be reborn in the next."

Don't know whether such an instruction is "Mahayana-like".

LauraJ wrote:Being truly present, for the joy or pain, is work in and of itself. My spiritual friends seem to do this. They seem to accept and be present for all of it. Actually lovingly embracing pain, I don't know.

A bit of mental pain fosters compassion, I think.

LauraJ wrote:I know we have vajrayana practices to address this.

Well poor me ... I don't. But that's fine.

Kind regards
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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:54 pm

Well poor me ... I don't. But that's fine.


Not poor me, you caught the gist of my question!

Kindly,
Laura
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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby ground » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:08 pm

That was meant a bit humorous or ironical. ;)

Anyway I am bit sceptical as to this "accepting" thing. As sceptical as I am towards muni's stereotype postings ...


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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:08 pm

Don't know whether such an instruction is "Mahayana-like".


It's totally Mahayana-like. It's a reflection on impermanence. Each moment does pass or die, literally, and to notice it mindfully is good. And to be present in the next moment and appreciate this precious human birth.

The actual quote is, “To live fully is to let go and die with each passing moment, and to be reborn in each new one.”

Kindly,
Laura
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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:09 pm

TMingyur wrote:That was meant a bit humorous or ironical. ;)

Anyway I am bit sceptical as to this "accepting" thing. As sceptical as I am towards muni's stereotype postings ...


Kind regards


Please be kind to our dear muni. She's so darn nice.

I see, haha. Well whether or not you feel fit for vajrayana, your practice is clearly fit for you.

:smile:
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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby ground » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:14 pm

LauraJ wrote:
TMingyur wrote:That was meant a bit humorous or ironical. ;)

Anyway I am bit sceptical as to this "accepting" thing. As sceptical as I am towards muni's stereotype postings ...


Kind regards


Please be kind to our dear muni. She's so darn nice.

"she"? Oh I always thought "he" ....

Be this as it may ... I like muni, just referred to her/his postings.
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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:16 pm

:namaste:
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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby muni » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:41 pm

Mingyur, teach me a Dharma path in which we can "become enlightened" by "seeing mistakes in others".

Teach me how we can have peace, using the boundless ones, the Paramitas... by scepticism; believing in own fabrications? :anjali: Jabchung.

Daily suffer isn't when thought about is not followed and not solidified. So a friend said.
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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby ronnewmexico » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:52 pm

Well a couple of quotes which may relate but predate those mentioned by a bit...

TT Namgyal....

If a meditator who has applied the vital instructionsa of self-transformation, partakes of the six sensory enjoyments, he cannot be harmed by their transient deficiencies. For he is capable of transforming them the way a poison is transmuted into ambrosia. The Hevajra-trantra elucidates the point:

Human individuals are fettered
By their inexhaustible karma
Yet by applying skillful methods
They can break the bondage of cyclic existence.

Saraha says:
One will not be defiled
Simply by partaking of sensory pleasures,
As the petals of the waterlilly
Are unstained by mud.
He who seeks refuge in
The root of inmost purity
Is like a master with a secret formula
To purify poison.
How can he be harmed by poison?

He also explains

The salty water of the oceans
Turns to delightful freshness
Through interaction with the clouds,
And poison can be turned into ambrosia.
Likewise a secure mind transforms(self concern)
Into a genuine concern for others."

To explain context a bit this follows....

"During the practice of elevating the mind to the illuminating path the meditator should first recognize and recollect his intense and vivid desire either for some material object or for a human individual. When using hatred as the basis of the practice, he should produce a heart-shattering ill-will and detestation for his enemies or for "obstructive forces.""...and on and on.

See these things are used in this reference for understanding the mind(not necessarily but maybe Kornfields quote contains similiarity) . I added the context as the first quotes may imply (out of context) a inherantly existant mind or some inherantly existant qualities, or some such.....that is not the intent of this section.

Saraha....was around at least 1300 years ago I believe or some such. TT Namgyal....600 or so years ago. Many variations of the same theme may be found stateing very similiar things in other schools to my limited knowledge. The water lilly in mud we all are undoubtly familiar with studying sutra or sutta.

For your enjoyment but perhaps reinterpreting the first a bit to fit in with a personal view....
Last edited by ronnewmexico on Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby ground » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:55 pm

muni wrote:Mingyur, teach me a Dharma path in which we can "become enlightened" by "seeing mistakes in others".

I do not know what you are referring to. There was no talk about "mistakes in others".

muni wrote:Teach me how we can have peace, using the boundless ones, the Paramitas... by scepticism; believing in own fabrications?

I do not know what you are referring to. Feel free to practice what you like, but accept that others are sceptical towards your stereotype postings. Where is the problem if what you post is true for you? It has not to be true for others in order to be true for you.
What is true for you are fabrications for me and vice versa. So be it.

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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby ronnewmexico » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:02 pm

TM..

"but accept that others are sceptical towards your stereotype postings"

Do you have a mouse in your pocket or have "others" given you authority to speak for them?

If you mean you are skeptical or some such, you are making the statement not "others", and feel free to state it.
If you claim authority to speak for others I say.....show the proof or else speak for yourself.

This would be a accurate representation if one wanted to make that statement correctly...

but accept that others may be skeptical towards your stereotype postings.

Thusly stated it may be a correctly worded statement. Are presumes what is not known to be. May allows for the possibility of its existance in a more than singular context but does not strictly state that multiple references suchly are known to exist.

To have uncorrectly worded statements is normally no big deal. When one is accusing another of sterotype postings or things of that nature, what is stated, must be corrrectly stated. By my take I personally doubt other view all M's posts are sterotypical postings. They may or may not be. Your statement initially infers others certainly do, which is not proven, and thusly implies a consensus view when none may be present. It may(or may not) be a singular view only. When one is implying a consensus view of negative origin applies, in a public forum where many have participated, this can wrongfully disincourage such targeted peoples from participating on that basis. If such is established(such concensus opinion)....I say go for it, sure, state it. That has absolutely not been established in this issue. If you state it has I say...prove it. If not edit your comment.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: An open heart; poison into nectar

Postby muni » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:41 pm

Look from where the scepticism is coming!

Mingyur: "What is true for you are fabrications for me and vice versa. So be it."

There is no truth in fabrications. Longchenpa.

:stirthepot: But fabrications can be useful applied with skill to "see" the truth.

Body speech and mind.

This is my last post. Temporary peace will be restored, everlasting I wish all. :anjali:
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