Meditation comparisons.
Meditation comparisons.
I have only had experience with the Theravada teachings on meditation.
Is Mahayana or Vajrayana any different? What is the aim ? Techniques?
Demarous.
Is Mahayana or Vajrayana any different? What is the aim ? Techniques?
Demarous.
Be a light unto yourself, be a refuge unto yourself...
Re: Meditation comparisons.
In whatever I've read about the classical Mahayana/Vajrayana and Thervada, Mahayana sutras incorporates the Nikaya meditations -i.e. the 10 recollections -- the Mahayana generally has an emphasis on the Buddha anusmriti which are found in most Mahayana sutras.Demarous wrote:I have only had experience with the Theravada teachings on meditation.
Is Mahayana or Vajrayana any different? What is the aim ? Techniques?
Demarous.
Recollection of the Buddha (Pali Buddhānussati, Skt. Buddhanusmrti, Tib. Sans- rgyas -rjes-su dran pa)
Recollection of the Dhamma (Pali Dhammānussati, Skt. Dharmanusmrti, Tib. Chos- rjes- su dran pa)
Recollection of the Sangha (Pali Saṅghānussati, Skt. Sanghanusmrti: Tib. dge -hdun- rjes- su dran pa)
However, to that Mahayana and Vajrayana add Dharanis, Mantras, Yantra and visual meditation.
Of course, in the Mahayana/Vajrayana tradition the aim becomes more for the attainment of Bodhisatvahood/Buddhahood.
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Re: Meditation comparisons.
Greetings sraddha,
Metta,
Retro.
Does that include bodhicitta cultivation, or is that something different?sraddha wrote:However, to that Mahayana and Vajrayana add Dharanis, Mantras, Yantra and visual meditation.
Metta,
Retro.
Live in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes.
Re: Meditation comparisons.
Hi Retro,retrofuturist wrote:Greetings sraddha,
Does that include bodhicitta cultivation, or is that something different?sraddha wrote:However, to that Mahayana and Vajrayana add Dharanis, Mantras, Yantra and visual meditation.
Metta,
Retro.
The cultivation of the 4 Brahmaviharas and the perfection of Silas and Paramitas and ultimately realizing anatma through concentration, results naturally in effortless Bodhichita.
Here's are beautiful verses from Shantideva, that you can compare with the Brahmaviharas as taught in the Theravada :
http://www.bodhicitta.net/Shantideva-chap-3.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In the spiritual energy that relieves
The anguish of beings in misery and
Places depressed beings in eternal joy
I lift up my heart and rejoice.
In the goodness producing illumination
I lift up my heart and rejoice.
I rejoice in the beings who have gained
Eternal liberation from suffering.
And I rejoice in those attained to Buddhahood
As well as in their offspring, the noble Bodhisattvas.
In the ocean-like virtue of the Bodhimind
That brings joy to all beings
And in accomplishing the well-being of others,
I lift up my heart and rejoice.
To the Buddhas of the ten directions
I join my hands in respect
Let blaze the light of Dharmas truth
For the beings lost in darkness
To the Buddhas considering parinirvarna
I join my hands in prayer
Do not abandon the beings in sorrow
But remain and teach for countless ages.
May any spiritual energy thus generated
By my devotion to the enlightened ones
Be dedicated to dispelling the misery
Of living beings without exception.
As long as diseases afflict living beings
May I be the doctor, the medicine
And also the nurse
Who restores them to health.
May I fall as rain to increase
The harvests that must feed living beings
And in ages of dire famine
May I myself serve as food and drink.
May I be an unending treasury
For those desperate and forlorn.
May I manifest as what they require
And wish to have near them.
My body, every possession
And all goodness, past, present and future
Without remorse I dedicate
To the well-being of the world
Suffering is transcended by total surrender
And the mind attains to nirvana.
As one day all must be given up,
Why not dedicate it now to universal happiness?
My bodily powers I dedicate
To the well-being of all that lives.
Should anyone wish to kill, abuse or beat me,
The responsibility is purely their own.
Should anyone wish to ridicule me
And make me an object of jest and scorn
Why should I possibly care
If I have dedicated myself to others?
Let them do as they wish with me
So long as it does not harm them.
May no one who encounters me
Ever have an insignificant contact.
Regardless whether those whom I meet
Respond towards me with anger or faith,
May the mere fact of our meeting
Contribute to the fulfilment of their wishes.
May the slander, harm
And all forms of abuse
That anyone should direct towards me
Act as a cause of their enlightenment.
May I be a protector to the helpless,
A guide to those travelling the path,
A boat to those wishing to cross over;
Or a bridge or a raft.
May I be land for those requiring it,
A lamp for those in darkness,
May I be a home for the homeless,
And a servant for the world.
In order to fulfil the needs of beings
May I be as a magic gem,
An inexhaustible vase, a mystic spell,
A cure-all medicine, and a wish granting tree.
May I act as the mighty earth
Or like the free and open skies
To support and provide the space
Whereby I and all others may grow.
Until every being afflicted by pain
Has reached nirvanas shores,
May I serve only as a condition
That encourages progress and joy.
Just as all previous Buddhas
First gave rise to the precious Bodhimind
And just as then carefully followed
The stages of the Bodhisattva disciplines.
Likewise for the sake of sentient beings
Do I now myself generate the Bodhimind,
And likewise will I train myself
In the disciplines of a Bodhisattva.
They who out of wisdom
Have seized the supreme Bodhimind
Praise, glorify and rejoice in it,
That it may grow to fulfilment.
From today I will reap the fruit of life;
Having well won the state of man,
Today I am born in the Buddha-family
And am now a child of the Buddhas.
Thus in future I should make every effort
To live in accord with the Bodhisattva Ways,
And never should I act as would bring shame
To this noble faultless family.
Like a blind man fumbling in garbage
Happens to find a rare and precious gem,
Likewise I have discovered
The jewel of the precious Bodhimind.
Thus was found this supreme ambrosia to dispel
The Lord of death, destroyer of life;
An inexhaustible treasure able to cure
The poverty of all sentient beings.
It is the highest of medicines
To quell the ills of the living,
And it is a tree giving shade
To those wandering on the paths of life.
It is a strong and mighty bridge
By which beings can cross from misery,
And it is a moon to shine in the mind
To clear away the pains of delusion.
The Bodhimind is a great radiant sun
To disperse the darkness of unknowing,
And it is the very essence of butters
Gained from churning the milks of Dharma.
For all guests on the roads of life
Who would take the very substance of joy,
Here is the actual seat of true happiness,
A veritable feast to satiate the world.
Thus today in the presence of all awakened Ones
I invite every living being to this festival
Giving both immediate and lasting joy.
May the gods and all others rejoice.
Re: Meditation comparisons.
Thanks for that, that was beautiful.
What about the techniques though, as in Theravada for example, the focus can be on the breath following it in and out of the body.
What are you actually focusing on, or trying to visualise for basic practice?
Metta,
Demarous.
What about the techniques though, as in Theravada for example, the focus can be on the breath following it in and out of the body.
What are you actually focusing on, or trying to visualise for basic practice?
Metta,
Demarous.
Be a light unto yourself, be a refuge unto yourself...
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Re: Meditation comparisons.
Greetings,
Further to Demarous' question, what meditation practices can be learned without a teacher, and which one's strictly require a teacher's guidance?
Metta,
Retro.
Further to Demarous' question, what meditation practices can be learned without a teacher, and which one's strictly require a teacher's guidance?
Metta,
Retro.
Live in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes.
Re: Meditation comparisons.
I began my Mahayana practice with the Bhaisajya Guru Dharani and I continue to practice it. However, as Mahayana does not reject the Aghama (Nikayas) it's core teachings are restated in many of the Mahayana Sutras.
The Buddha, Dharma, Sangha Anusmriti or recollection of the Buddha and anapansmriti (breath meditation) are also the most basic teachings in Buddhism and is common in both schools.
āryatriratnānusmṛtisūtram
http://www.uwest.edu/sanskritcanon/dp/i ... 9ae02cd9ee" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Buddha, Dharma, Sangha Anusmriti or recollection of the Buddha and anapansmriti (breath meditation) are also the most basic teachings in Buddhism and is common in both schools.
āryatriratnānusmṛtisūtram
http://www.uwest.edu/sanskritcanon/dp/i ... 9ae02cd9ee" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Meditation comparisons.
Thanks for that Sraddha, i am very interested in learning about all types of buddhism and there beliefs, practices etc, so this is very helpful to me.
Metta,
Demarous.
Metta,
Demarous.
Be a light unto yourself, be a refuge unto yourself...
Re: Meditation comparisons.
You are very welcome! I found that reading the actual suttas/sutras with the translations are very helpful in gaining understanding.
Unfortuneatly, modern Mahayana/Vajrayana does not emphasize the Aghama/Nikaya teachings as much as Classical Mahayana/Vajrayana did. The Aghamas formed the foundational teachings in classical Mahayana. If you read Nagarjuna's and Ashvaghosha, they have a solid knowledge of the Nikayas and Mahayana sutras.
Unfortuneatly, modern Mahayana/Vajrayana does not emphasize the Aghama/Nikaya teachings as much as Classical Mahayana/Vajrayana did. The Aghamas formed the foundational teachings in classical Mahayana. If you read Nagarjuna's and Ashvaghosha, they have a solid knowledge of the Nikayas and Mahayana sutras.
Re: Meditation comparisons.
useful for comparison-- this site contains some notes on the aims of meditation, taken at a mahayana monastery: http://cgarriott.bol.ucla.edu/nmsm/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Meditation comparisons.
For example counting breaths and watching the breath is always fine.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Further to Demarous' question, what meditation practices can be learned without a teacher, and which one's strictly require a teacher's guidance?
Metta,
Retro.
Calm Abiding meditation is slightly more complex and is usually is taught by an instructor (like a lay practitioner who has been given permission by his teacher to teach it) but it doesn't actually require a guru or transmission from a lama.
And there are some mantras than can be said without transmission. I just got permission to say one last night in fact, but I haven't directly received the mantra.
There are some sadhanas, like Chenrezig practice, that one can do but usually it's done with the expectation that someone will receive lung at some point.
Best,
Laura
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Re: Meditation comparisons.
Hi Retro,retrofuturist wrote:Does that include bodhicitta cultivation, or is that something different?
Metta,
Retro.
Was this sufficiently answered for you?
Best,
Laura
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Re: Meditation comparisons.
Demarous wrote:Thanks for that, that was beautiful.
What about the techniques though, as in Theravada for example, the focus can be on the breath following it in and out of the body.
What are you actually focusing on, or trying to visualise for basic practice?
Metta,
Demarous.
Here are some methods of meditation. However I am not a meditation instructor! This first site has some interesting methods. Here is a simplified explanation/instruction for counting the breaths. There are more complicated methods as well, but this is a brief explanation:
WATCHING THE BREATH - THE REAL BASICS
After the preliminaries, concentrate on the tip of your nose, and feel the breath going in and out.
To help your concentration, you can count every out-breath as one, and count from 1 to 10. When you arrived at 10, simply start at 1 again. All the attention is with the feeling of the nose and the counting, nothing more, nothing less.
Regularly check yourself if you are still concentrated, do not get angry when distracted, simply return to counting from 1.
Just before the end of the session, release the concentration on the counting and the tip of your nose, and simply be aware of how you feel for a minute or so.
Then dedicate the positive energy of the session to whichever goal you like, use for example above prayers.
Source: http://www.viewonbuddhism.org/Meditatio ... ion.html#0
Re: Meditation comparisons.
I've done a lot of comparisons between what I learned/studied in Zen and what I came across in Theravada. (Having done retreats in both sorts of centers.) Something I enjoy discussing actually.
Concentration (samatha/shamatha)practices tend to be pretty consistent across Zen, Theravada, and I think most Buddhist schools, really. Counting or focusing the breath on a *particular* area. The difference I have found though is that in Zen, there are teachers that will require you to build up a very solid foundation of concentration before you do anything else, whereas modern Theravada teachers (or "vipassana teachers") tend to very quickly want to get people onto insight (vipassana/vipashyana).
Secondly would be something like Shikantaza ("just sitting") or Silent Illumination (we can quibble about whether those are different or the same, but for my purposes here I'm lumping them together). I identify these very much as insight (vipassana/vipashyana) practices, though they do build samadhi in a less direct way. It is sometimes called shamatha/vipashyana. (Somebody let me know if my Sanskrit spellings are off)
A major difference here is what I would call the "attitude" towards what exactly is being cultivated. Zen is less goal oriented and requires an attitude of trust that the process will unfold. One is not necessarily "developing" anything but "taking the backwards step" and allowing one's Buddha Nature/Innate Enlightenment (not a Theravada teaching) to be realized.
The last major one would be any kind of koan introspection, which is of course an animal all on it's own. A koan is a word, phrase, story, etc. which does not have any immediately recognizable meaning, or has a meaning beyond what is immediately recognizable but which can't be figured out the way we normally think. (Not a great description here).
Koan introspection is taking a koan as an object of meditation. On one hand it is a super-intense concentration practice becuase you are basically short-circuiting your minds linear processes, and on the other hand it is an insight practice since one "breaks through" a koan and is said to achieve some sort of insight as a result, which is not an "answer" but a very intuitive understanding of...something. Some koans are are more focused "mu" and some are more gradually unfolding like the Hwadu's of Korean zen (correct my Korean also) such as "who am I?" and "What is it?"
Koans are unique to zen and shouldn't be done without a teacher. Or rather, if your'e doing them without a teacher you're not really doing them. It's not that something "bad" will necessarily happen (though I suppose you could go a bit crazy) but the point of them is that the teacher has experienced and can recognize the kind of insight into that koan, which determines whether you "pass" or not. Most of the time they'll tell you you're full of crap and to go back to the cushion, which is where some of the intense investigation and concentration come in.
My only koan experience was in korean zen where I was given the question "who am I?" which is actually a kind of nonsense question, since all schools of Buddhism teach anatta/anatman/notself. It was a funny experience. i thought "ok, I know all about the aggregates and not-self. This should be noooo problem." But I basically ended up recognizing a lot of the things I was identifying with as a self, which was valuable, though I ended up abandoning the practice since I wasn't able to get to a teacher for awhile. I also found my mind was kind of scattered with it, which is what I find when doing vipassana practices, so I always come back to basic samatha.
-M
Concentration (samatha/shamatha)practices tend to be pretty consistent across Zen, Theravada, and I think most Buddhist schools, really. Counting or focusing the breath on a *particular* area. The difference I have found though is that in Zen, there are teachers that will require you to build up a very solid foundation of concentration before you do anything else, whereas modern Theravada teachers (or "vipassana teachers") tend to very quickly want to get people onto insight (vipassana/vipashyana).
Secondly would be something like Shikantaza ("just sitting") or Silent Illumination (we can quibble about whether those are different or the same, but for my purposes here I'm lumping them together). I identify these very much as insight (vipassana/vipashyana) practices, though they do build samadhi in a less direct way. It is sometimes called shamatha/vipashyana. (Somebody let me know if my Sanskrit spellings are off)
A major difference here is what I would call the "attitude" towards what exactly is being cultivated. Zen is less goal oriented and requires an attitude of trust that the process will unfold. One is not necessarily "developing" anything but "taking the backwards step" and allowing one's Buddha Nature/Innate Enlightenment (not a Theravada teaching) to be realized.
The last major one would be any kind of koan introspection, which is of course an animal all on it's own. A koan is a word, phrase, story, etc. which does not have any immediately recognizable meaning, or has a meaning beyond what is immediately recognizable but which can't be figured out the way we normally think. (Not a great description here).
Koan introspection is taking a koan as an object of meditation. On one hand it is a super-intense concentration practice becuase you are basically short-circuiting your minds linear processes, and on the other hand it is an insight practice since one "breaks through" a koan and is said to achieve some sort of insight as a result, which is not an "answer" but a very intuitive understanding of...something. Some koans are are more focused "mu" and some are more gradually unfolding like the Hwadu's of Korean zen (correct my Korean also) such as "who am I?" and "What is it?"
Koans are unique to zen and shouldn't be done without a teacher. Or rather, if your'e doing them without a teacher you're not really doing them. It's not that something "bad" will necessarily happen (though I suppose you could go a bit crazy) but the point of them is that the teacher has experienced and can recognize the kind of insight into that koan, which determines whether you "pass" or not. Most of the time they'll tell you you're full of crap and to go back to the cushion, which is where some of the intense investigation and concentration come in.
My only koan experience was in korean zen where I was given the question "who am I?" which is actually a kind of nonsense question, since all schools of Buddhism teach anatta/anatman/notself. It was a funny experience. i thought "ok, I know all about the aggregates and not-self. This should be noooo problem." But I basically ended up recognizing a lot of the things I was identifying with as a self, which was valuable, though I ended up abandoning the practice since I wasn't able to get to a teacher for awhile. I also found my mind was kind of scattered with it, which is what I find when doing vipassana practices, so I always come back to basic samatha.
-M
"The Dharma is huge." - Rael