Naropa's Khechari's Intimate Instructions - What are they?

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Naropa's Khechari's Intimate Instructions - What are they?

Postby Mr. G » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:49 pm

From Namdrol's blog:

Sachen said of the Naropa's Khechari cycle:

In general though there are many profound and important dharmas, the Guru yoga and the intimate instructions of this are more profound.

Loppon Rinpoche said:

This alone is the extracted essence of all my Dharma cycles. Since that great Guru did not propagate this intimate instruction, he did not allow me to. It is very
important that you emphasize this, practice it secretly, and you will obtain the supreme siddhi of mahāmudrā in this life, and also there is no doubt that whatever
ordinary things you wish can be accomplished with the intimate instructions.

http://sakyatradition.blogspot.com/2008 ... ya-is.html


A long time ago, I believe someone said the intimate instructions were a cycle of teachings that are similar to the 13 Golden Dharmas in that the practice had specific functions. Sort of like how Black Manjushri was useful for counteracting virulent disease, malevolent forces, and forms of disharmony in our environment, or how Red Jhambala was for wealth.

Can anyone tell me more details regarding the intimate instructions? Are teachings ever given on this?
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Re: Naropa's Khechari's Intimate Instructions - What are they?

Postby kirtu » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:06 am

mr. gordo wrote:From Namdrol's blog:

Sachen said of the Naropa's Khechari cycle:


I think this is quite cryptic and intentionally secret.

I had also thought that the phrase "intimate instructions" referred to
the inner Naro Kachodoma teachings, but perhaps not.


Sort of like how Black Manjushri was useful for counteracting virulent disease, malevolent forces, and forms of disharmony in our environment, or how Red Jhambala was for wealth.

Can anyone tell me more details regarding the intimate instructions? Are teachings ever given on this?


I had thought the result is the function of engaging in the specific practice.

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Re: Naropa's Khechari's Intimate Instructions - What are they?

Postby Mr. G » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:35 am

kirtu wrote:
I think this is quite cryptic and intentionally secret.

I had also thought that the phrase "intimate instructions" referred to
the inner Naro Kachodoma teachings, but perhaps not.

Kirt


I do remember Namdrol stating that this was not the teachings that required retreat commitments (BM & MBT)

Sort of like how Black Manjushri was useful for counteracting virulent disease, malevolent forces, and forms of disharmony in our environment, or how Red Jhambala was for wealth.

Can anyone tell me more details regarding the intimate instructions? Are teachings ever given on this?

I had thought the result is the function of engaging in the specific practice.


Yes, sorry if I wasn't clear. Basically wondering what the specific practices would be for the intimate instructions. Like maybe they would have a cycle of dakini practices....I'm just guessing though.
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Re: Naropa's Khechari's Intimate Instructions - What are they?

Postby Karma Sherab » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:20 pm

Mr. Gordo, the "intimate instructions" I think may refer to those instructions referred to as "uncommon"

Why intimate? - Maybe because they are to be transmitted to very few people at a time - like three or two or one - hence intimate.

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Re: Naropa's Khechari's Intimate Instructions - What are they?

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:27 pm

Karma Sherab wrote:Mr. Gordo, the "intimate instructions" I think may refer to those instructions referred to as "uncommon"

Why intimate? - Maybe because they are to be transmitted to very few people at a time - like three or two or one - hence intimate.

:anjali:



It is a translation of upadeśa. Upa means "near", deśa means instruction. In this context upadeśas are instructions heard at the feet of one's master.
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Re: Naropa's Khechari's Intimate Instructions - What are they?

Postby adinatha » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:54 pm

It probably doesn't, but does this have anything to do with the Kechari Mudra? As in tongue in the nasal passage? In a loose sense, Kechari, translated as "the siddhi of flying in the sky," could be a euphemism for dakini as well. So this could just be a method about mahamudra, too. There are also Tilopa's "Bodiless Dakini" instructions that made it into Drukpa Kagyu.
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Re: Naropa's Khechari's Intimate Instructions - What are they?

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:11 pm

adinatha wrote:It probably doesn't, but does this have anything to do with the Kechari Mudra?


Nope.




, Kechari, translated as "the siddhi of flying in the sky," could be a euphemism for dakini as well.


Among other things, it is a euphemism for achieving liberation in the bardo.



So this could just be a method about mahamudra, too. There are also Tilopa's "Bodiless Dakini" instructions that made it into Drukpa Kagyu.


Naro Khacho is the command seal single disciple for seven generation lineage instructions in Sakya that are Naropa's special Vajrayogini instructions that were never given to anyone but the Phaimthing brothers and then passed down into Sakya having been brought to Tibet by the translator Mal Lotsawa. They are the most essential teachings of the Sakya school. The first master to teach these to more than one disciple was Sachen's son, Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen.

N
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

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Re: Naropa's Khechari's Intimate Instructions - What are they?

Postby Karma Sherab » Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:53 pm

Further to what Namdrol said, we have a sort of linguistic issue here. Unlike in Tibet, where there is one translation of the word upadesha as "menga" in English there is not yet an agreed protocol to follow in translation so often familiar words become unfamiliar when used by a different translator.

Even in TIbetan there are so many closely related words. For example Upadesha some times comes out as a rather vague "Oral transmission" which strictly is closer to ka-gyud or "line by mouth", "nyen-gyud" or “whispered line” amongst others.

The problem is (i) humans are imperfect (ii) tend to be imprecise and and moreover like like to do things their own way.

:tongue:
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Re: Naropa's Khechari's Intimate Instructions - What are they?

Postby Malcolm » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:39 pm

Karma Sherab wrote:Further to what Namdrol said, we have a sort of linguistic issue here. Unlike in Tibet, where there is one translation of the word upadesha as "menga" in English there is not yet an agreed protocol to follow in translation so often familiar words become unfamiliar when used by a different translator.

Even in TIbetan there are so many closely related words. For example Upadesha some times comes out as a rather vague "Oral transmission" which strictly is closer to ka-gyud or "line by mouth", "nyen-gyud" or “whispered line” amongst others.

The problem is (i) humans are imperfect (ii) tend to be imprecise and and moreover like like to do things their own way.

:tongue:


There are two translations at least for the word upadesha in Tibetan man ngag and gdams ngag.

N
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

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Re: Naropa's Khechari's Intimate Instructions - What are they?

Postby Karma Sherab » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:17 pm

There are two translations at least for the word upadesha in Tibetan man ngag and gdams ngag.
N
There are two translations at least for the word upadesha in Tibetan man ngag and gdams ngag.

N



Yes, I forgot about damngag. And goodness knows what else doesn't come to mind. :lol:

So it seems even one of the main custodians of the Dharma, i.e. the Tibetans have this problem! :shrug:
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