Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

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Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:46 am

A right wing pundit on a American right wing national media outlet(Fox News) has advocated for Christianity in the specific case of Tiger Woods. The golfer is apparently guilty of many transgressions of the marriage vows, with multiple women. Tiger is reportedly a Buddhist. Britt Hume(the pundit) states only through Christainity can Tiger Woods attain forgiveness and redemption.

I will try this link....[url]breitbart.tv/brit-hume-advises-tiger-woods-to-leave-buddhism[/url]... but am new to this board. If it does not work simply quary.... Britt Hume on Tiger Woods Buddhism....and you will find a copy of the video.

Fox is a national news outlet in America which espouses to offer fair and balanced news that is totally objective. To my view it is extreamly right wing and reflects generally only that view, though that is a personal opinion. Christians are very nice peoples and compassionate and certainly their faiths view is equal to Buddhism in many respects. Unfortunately if Christianity is used by the far right wing in American it is equated with ideas such as America being a Christian nation(John McCain) and godless religions such as Buddhism being far from desired.

The question is....do you agree that Christianity is the only viable spiritual outlet for Tiger Woods to find "redemption"?.

I suspect not this being a Buddhist board. I personally do not call what I find redemption but find Buddhism works perfectly for most anything.

But do you? What is your opinion on this issue? Would it be "out of line" for a Buddhist to state on a national media news outlet like Fox that someone who is Christian and guilty of multiple mistakes in marriage that that person should abandon Christianity and become Buddhist?

I would suppose it would be but that is my opinion. What is yours?

To add...since the link is not working(operator error) perhaps someone else could post a useable link showing the video.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:35 am

Greetings,

Simply having a religion does not mean that one automatically lives perfectly in accordance with its teachings. In all religions there are people who are wonderful exemplars for that religion's teachings and then there are the "black sheep". Tiger's transgressions lend him towards falling into the latter category. Thus, he would probably be better off "returning" to Buddhism rather than abandoning it. It would be better to strive to abandon craving and the pursuit of sensual pleasure.

Metta,
Retro. :)
Live in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes

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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby Luke » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:18 pm

ronnewmexico wrote:The question is....do you agree that Christianity is the only viable spiritual outlet for Tiger Woods to find "redemption"?.


It depends what one means by "redemption." If "redemption" here means "redemption in the eyes of the general public" (most of whom are Christian and aren't particularly fond of Buddhism), then converting to Christianity might be the only way for Mr. Woods to impress these people.

If you mean "redemption" in the more profound sense, then, of course, it's not at all necessary for Woods to convert to any other religion. He just needs to apply the tried and true four powers of confession: 1) admit his transgression, 2) feel true remorse, 3) promise to never do it again, and then 4) apply some remedy to atone for some of the bad karma he generated (such as reciting a certain mantras thousands of times or performing very kind and generous acts).

The key to his redemption only lies within his own mind. Other people can be fooled by his actions, but the deep levels of his mind cannot (i.e. one can never evade the effects of karma--except by becoming a Buddha).
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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby BFS » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:49 pm

Take it from whence it comes, I would be shocked if Fox News suggested otherwise.

The Daily Show News offers perspective for the not so easily offended ;)

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-january-4-2010/the-best-f--king-news-team-ever---tiger-woods--faith
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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby KeithBC » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:53 pm

I have no opinion on what religion Tiger Woods should follow. It's not my business.

All religions have essentially the same moral codes. They have different reasons for promoting them, but at a practical level, there is not a lot of difference: don't kill, don't steal, don't commit adultery, etc. They are common because, socially, they are what works.

So changing religions is not going to make a difference to the moral code that the person aspires to. Of course, this point is precisely what right wingers like to lie about: they would have you believe that their brand of religion is the only one with this moral code.

So Tiger Woods was not a perfect Buddhist. This is news?? :shock: (It was news to me that he was Buddhist, but I'll take your word for it.) None of us are perfect. Any more than any particular Christian you care to name is a perfect Christian. So, if an imperfect Buddhist becomes an imperfect Christian, that of itself is not going to change his (or anyone else's) ways.

People change when they find a motivation to change. If converting to another religion were to provide someone with a better motivation for good conduct, then I would say, "Go for it." If they find that their present religion provides them with a good enough motivation (recognizing their imperfection in applying that motivation), then they should stay where they are.

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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:49 pm

BFS

Thanks for the useable link which does contain the actual video of Britt Hume within it.
And it is quite humerous. I thought it notable perhaps none of the four comics were portraying a Buddhist however. Is Buddhism ready for prime time..perhaps not it seems.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby BFS » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:21 pm

ronnewmexico wrote:BFS

Thanks for the useable link which does contain the actual video of Britt Hume within it.
And it is quite humerous. I thought it notable perhaps none of the four comics were portraying a Buddhist however. Is Buddhism ready for prime time..perhaps not it seems.


You are welcome, ronnewmexico.

What Britt Hume did on Fox does not surprise me, it's what most Christians do, they proselytize and Fox allows them space to do so. I don't know what all the fuss is about, to be honest.
Buddhism is always ready, we just need suitable conditions. We can perhaps thank Britt Hume for creating those conditions and shining the light on Buddhism. All we now need are educated Buddhists willing to help educate the many who know nothing about Buddhism, by sharing some teachings on the concept of forgiveness in Buddhism.

Here is something by Alan Wallace, for consideration.


"In Tibetan there is no verb for “forgiveness” but there is a word patience, fortitude, inner strength and there is absence of malice, understanding this came together due to causes and conditions. Forgiveness can be quite focused on people as autonomous agents - but all misery comes from mental afflictions. If a child becomes very ill, becomes delirious and shouts at the mother, the issue of forgiveness doesn’t even arise. Where does forgiveness come in? You forgive someone for getting sick? You are sick so I forgive you? That is me holding onto something and making you responsible. People do not choose to become deluded and hateful or greedy. It just happens. When it happens we use loving kindness: may you be free of mental afflictions. "

B.Alan Wallace


http://www.archive.org/details/B_Alan_W ... es_Retreat
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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:00 pm

Yes, he is absolutely correct actions be they good or bad seem to have no inherantly existant qualities about them, and thusly ultimately similiarily a one cannot be found to have caused such things. Thusly the notion of guilt as opposed to forgiveness of guilt is untenable.

"I don't know what all the fuss is about, to be honest. " I see the fuss as being more political than religiously oriented.
When the American public is faced with stark reality of things as opposed to their conceptualized made up view of the reality of things, things become quite interesting. As brief example would be the expectations of outcomes from the war in Iraq and the watching of the eventual erosion of expectations and ideologies that supported such expectations and their modifications to allow for....what was a wholly unexpected outcome(to those holding such view). The ideology had to be fitted to the reality as the reality was wrong as they envisioned it. It cannot be allowed that the ideology is wrong as that threatens a baser self concept.

Now the ideological model of America internalizes freedom of religion as concept.The reality of right wing politics is to present no such free environment. Occasionally....this becomes patently obvious. Why would one religion be presumptively considered superior to another in any fashion....that question begs to be answered by the Britt Humes video.

So it becomes a big deal in that respect...it personifies lack of freedom of religious thought. Not to far from that leap it the leap......is this not what radical muslims think of Christianity. And so the reality of the statement becomes untenable to the ideology.

So then it becomes a big deal. Reality of things is not matching conceptual ideology of things. Essentially to those people there exists no freedom of religion. So they do not believe in those things that conceptually make America America. That is probably a third of Americas population.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby Prasadachitta » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:33 am

I have no idea what redemption means. Let me look it up...


Websters
"serving to offset or compensate for a defect"


Buddhism can permanently rid us of defects. To me that sounds allot better than mere compensation.

So much for Christianity...

Although maybe Christianity isnt using the Websters definition.

In that case I have no way to communicate anything about redemption.

Metta

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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby Clueless Git » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:57 am

ronnewmexico wrote:A right wing pundit on a American right wing national media outlet(Fox News) has advocated for Christianity in the specific case of Tiger Woods. The golfer is apparently guilty of many transgressions of the marriage vows, with multiple women. Tiger is reportedly a Buddhist. Britt Hume(the pundit) states only through Christainity can Tiger Woods attain forgiveness and redemption.

On the assumption that Mr Woods has declared himself, at some time or another, to be buddhist ..

I am wondering if Mr Hume bothered to find out how many of the women concerned, if asked, would declare themselves to be Christian.
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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby Clueless Git » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:23 am

KeithBC wrote:All religions have essentially the same moral codes. They have different reasons for promoting them, but at a practical level, there is not a lot of difference: don't kill, don't steal, don't commit adultery, etc. They are common because, socially, they are what works.

So changing religions is not going to make a difference to the moral code that the person aspires to. Of course, this point is precisely what right wingers like to lie about: they would have you believe that their brand of religion is the only one with this moral code.

Purely because I find it amusing ...

My own parents are right wing Christians.

Any common morality twix buddhism and Christianity, they assert, can only exist because the buddha nicked any good ideas he ever had off of Jesus.

Pointing out that the buddha died some 500 years before Jesus was born has never dissuaded them.

Somewhat strangely though both m'mum and m'dad seem to recognise that there is something inherently wrong with my equaly 'logical' assertion that m'dad and I only look alike 'cos he inherited MY nose and eyebrows.
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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby Clueless Git » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:43 am

gabrielbranbury wrote:I have no idea what redemption means. Let me look it up...


Websters
"serving to offset or compensate for a defect"


Buddhism can permanently rid us of defects. To me that sounds allot better than mere compensation.

So much for Christianity...

Although maybe Christianity isnt using the Websters definition.

In that case I have no way to communicate anything about redemption.

Metta

Gabe

'Lo Gabriel :)

When Christians refer to 'redemption' they mean it in relation to redemption of the 'original' sin, against God, committed by Eve in the Garden of Eden.

The only redemption for original sin is by acceptance of the one and only God having sacrificed his one and only son on a cross at Calvary.

That, for the sole reason of it being an exclusively Christian belief, makes, by Christian definition, redemption impossible outside of Christianity.
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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby Prasadachitta » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:15 pm

Clueless Git wrote:'Lo Gabriel :)

When Christians refer to 'redemption' they mean it in relation to redemption of the 'original' sin, against God, committed by Eve in the Garden of Eden.

The only redemption for original sin is by acceptance of the one and only God having sacrificed his one and only son on a cross at Calvary.

That, for the sole reason of it being an exclusively Christian belief, makes, by Christian definition, redemption impossible outside of Christianity.


Well that's trippy. I never cease to be amazed when I hear such things. Its kind of hard for me to fathom what its like to hold an idea like that in your head. As I get close to fathoming it compassion is the best way to describe what happens in my mind in regards to those who have such ideas. I imagine it to be like a dark fog of blinding confusion. EWW.

May they be well, May they be happy, May they find freedom from confusion.

Maitri

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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby ronnewmexico » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:43 pm

On Tiger woods Buddhism...it seems one of his parents(his mum) was Buddhist I have heard. He has supposedly made statements to the effect of being Buddhist at least once. I'd guess it is not a very serious practice him being a professional athlete, and very busy with endorsement and "recreational" pursuits(it seems anyone who meditates calls themselves Buddhist nowadays) but that is just personal conjecture.

The pundit, Britt Hume has not backed off his statement but continues; considering the feedback to be actually a attack on Christianity and Jesus. Geeze Louise....ya gotta wonder? So when others raise objection to a religion being attacked and called deficient as opposed to a pundits religion, any defense is then called a attack upon the initiators religion.

I guess all are just supposed to summarily admit to the superiority of the pundits religion, and voice no concern of equality of religions, so as not to be perceived as attacking.

Things in this world(conceptually) are indeed upside down for the most part it seems.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby BFS » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:48 pm

CNN just aired an interview with a young Buddhist practitioner, Ethan Nichtern of The Interdependence Project. Ethan Nichtern is a second-generation teacher in the Shambhala tradition who teaches Buddhism throughout the United States. He is the author of Declaration of Interdependence (to be released in 2007 by Wisdom Publications) and the iTunes podcast 21st-Century Buddhism.

He was asked about Buddhism, and about forgiveness in Buddhism, I think he did a good job explaining.

Buddhism has not had this much air time for a long time. Interesting turn of events.

:D
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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby ronnewmexico » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:49 am

Yes....probably causeing much consternation to the far far right and Britt Hume.

Can't have that. This is(Amercia) after all a "Christian" nation isn't it? We Buddhists should all either get used to being second class citizens or go back to where we came from......

In God we trust...ya all. One nation under God...with liberty and justice for who? Must be a misprint says "all" here.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby BFS » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:39 pm

I am happy that someone is using the opportunity creatively, to inform and educate, instead of just getting caught up in the swirl of aversion.

Good for Ethan.

I like what Lama Zopa Rinpoche says:

"Once you realize the true evolution of your mental problems, you'll never blame any other living being for how you feel."

May all sentient beings be free from bias, attachment and anger.
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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby BFS » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:49 pm

The Takeaway: Robert Thurman
http://www.thetakeaway.org
Fox News' analyst Brit Hume ruffled hundreds of millions of feathers last weekend when he suggested Tiger Woods should switch from Buddhism to Christianity for moral redemption. We spoke with Robert Thurman-

http://www.thetakeaway.org/contributors/robert-thurman/
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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:21 pm

No way should anyone abandon the triple gem for messing up in life.
It's all the more reason to pursue the path with vigor!

Whether or not he should step down from being a husband is another question :)

:namaste:
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Re: Tiger Woods should abandon Buddhism?

Postby Karma Sonam » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:59 pm

It makes complete sense to completely abandon a path when you fall off and instead flounder around in the bush. :rolling:
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