Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

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Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

Postby phantom59 » Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:41 am

communism has stamped its mark on the 20th century-a mark of aggression and cruelty, bloodshed and tears. Historians have estimated that its ideology has caused the death of 120 million people since the russian revolution of 1917. These casualties include not only soldiers killed on battlefields, but citizens murdered by their own governments. The whole world has seen the pitiless slaughter carried out by communist leaders. One hundred million men and women, from the elderly to young people and infants, lost their lives to this cold, hard, savage ideology. Communist regimes have deprived tens of millions of their most basic rights and freedoms, ejecting people from their homes and systematically subjecting them to famines, slavery in labor camps and imprisonment. Millions have been the targets of Communist guerilla groups and terrorist organizations, and still others have lived in the fear of becoming targets for their bullets.

When mao came to power, he instituted a war against religion and its practitioners. But this was done in "secret," as lenin's communists had done. The communist party initiated a policy called the "Three self movement," meaning that all religious institutions must be structured so that they could be "self supporting, self administrating, and self organized." This policy appeared to be based on granting freedom of religion, but it was actually a campaign designed to destroy religion completely. All religious institutions and places of worship throughout the country-Confucian and Buddhist temples, mosques and Christian churches-came under the control of state controlled management bodies. Within a short time, these religious institutions became "maoist propaganda centers." A statement given to the American International Commission on Religious Freedom on March 16, 2000 by a chinese Christian by the name of Harry Wu says:

http://www.harunyahya.com/communism06.php


The Three Secrets of Fatima consist of a series of visions and prophecies claimed to be given by an apparition of the Blessed Virgin Mary to three young Portuguese shepherds, Lucia Santos and her cousins Jacinta and Francisco Marto, on July 13, 1917. The three children claimed to have been visited by a Marian apparition six times between May and October 1917. The apparition is now popularly known as Our Lady of Fatima.

On July 13, around noon, the lady is said to have entrusted the children with three secrets.


Fatima is undoubtedly the most prophetic of modern apparitions. The first and second parts of the secret which are here published in sequence so as to complete the documentation refer especially to the frightening vision of hell, devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, the Second World War, and finally the prediction of the immense damage that Russia (and china) would do to humanity by religious persecution and embracing communist totalitarianism.


The first part is the vision of hell.

Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror.

You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia (and china)will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world

The third part of the secret was written by order of His Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and the Most Holy Mother on 3 January 1944.

at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: Penance, Penance, Penance!'. And we saw in an immense light that is God: %u2018something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congr ... ma_en.html

End persecution and communism in china
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/end-re ... n-in-china
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Re: Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

Postby ronnewmexico » Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:49 pm

I don't know if political threads are a OK here as I am new. Assumeing they are I proceed.

Firstly, this is a Buddhist board. Quotes on our Lady of Fatima or some such Christian references really have not much relevence.

That aside, China is not a Communist country by definitions derived from the founder of socialism and the communist concept on what constitutes a communist state. They have private ownership of businesses and state control of some aspects of the business community but in no manner shape nor form do these controls approximate a communist state as one is defined by its originator. They also have no socialist programs in place such as social security nor universal health care programs which are in place in any country calling itself socialistic nevertheless communistic.

It is a totalitarian state who uses the name of communism to extend and maintain their power. Similiarily the gang of four after Mao's death used communism and their "cultural revolution" as but a means to maintain and extend power.China itself agreeed this happened, and condemned this action and condemned those involved to death. Their cultural revolution was no revolution and had no real relationship to communism but used regional and class dissatisfaction as a excuse for actions which were callled communistic but were murderous and power struggles in their entirely. More similiar to the pogams of the middle ages than communism.

Point being China is a complex political environment and what seems to be is often not. As by name the Nazi's were equilivented with socialism but were socialistic enemies, the current Chinese government has little relationship with communism. Though they call themselves communists. Totalitarians facists perhaps, not communists.

Of course they are responsible for heinous actions murders and all the rest. But to my opinion trotting out the old bugaboos of communism and such serves little to understand and thusly counter the heinous actions of that totalitarian state. To counter a enemy one must firstly understand a enemy. The enemy being not the peoples of China nor even their form of government but that element which causes to exist human rights infringement.

The understanding of China and its current government in terms from years ago but still persisting today only lead us to wrong action.

So my advice is to throw....the talking points far away,.And examine it yourself fully. Such past thoughts on this and related issues led us directly through our misperception to the action that was Vietnam. Mistaking a nationlistic struggle in the main for a communist takeover attempt on the entire world. Vietnam and China within two years of our withdrawal from Vietnam were themselves at war.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

Postby KeithBC » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:23 am

I don't wish to argue with the premise stated in the thread title. However, the same could be said of capitalism.

Both communism and capitalism are manifestations of the same mindset and values, namely that nature exists for the purpose of our exploitation of it, and that all interests (especially spiritual ones) must be subservient to economic interests, with the sole exception being the interests of those in power to remain there.

That mindset is setting up the fall of humanity (perhaps of the species; certainly of civilization). Either the mindset that generates both communism and capitalism falls or humanity perishes.

Om mani padme hum
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Re: Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

Postby Luke » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:00 pm

KeithBC wrote:I don't wish to argue with the premise stated in the thread title. However, the same could be said of capitalism.

Both communism and capitalism are manifestations of the same mindset and values, namely that nature exists for the purpose of our exploitation of it, and that all interests (especially spiritual ones) must be subservient to economic interests, with the sole exception being the interests of those in power to remain there.

That mindset is setting up the fall of humanity (perhaps of the species; certainly of civilization). Either the mindset that generates both communism and capitalism falls or humanity perishes.

Om mani padme hum
Keith


I couldn't agree more, Keith! People have killed thousands of people for many different ideologies, "capitalism," "monarchism," "nazism," "communism," "tribalism," "manifest destiny," "religion X," "religion Y," etc.

As long as people still have their minds clouded by the three poisons (hatred, attachment, and ignorance), they will suffer and cause others to suffer.

Hatred of the Chinese or hatred of a doctrine can cause just as much suffering as the Chinese or the doctrine in question have caused. Fighting hatred with hatred will only produce more suffering in the world. We can stand firm and criticize immoral doctrines and actions, but we must do so without allowing ourselves to be polluted by anger. Otherwise, we ourselves start down the path that leads towards angry mobs and demagogues.
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Re: Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:58 am

Phantom, your post is very interesting.

:namaste:
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Re: Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

Postby ground » Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:12 pm

Nice propaganda.
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Re: Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:42 pm

Greetings,

From a political/economic perspective, I agree with ronnewmexico.

From a spiritual perspective, I agree with KeithBC.

Metta,
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Re: Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

Postby Nemo » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:46 am

phantom59 wrote:Corrupt elites have stamped their mark on the 20th century-a mark of aggression and cruelty, bloodshed and tears. Historians have estimated that corrupt elites have caused the death of 200 million people since 1917. These casualties include not only soldiers killed on battlefields, but citizens murdered by their own governments.


I don't think the propaganda we are being fed changes things very much. China will not fall. It is run by engineers and scientists, not lawyers. They are already buying resources around the world at an alarming rate. Aluminium, tar sands, farm land, pot ash, steel, water sheds. Simultaneously their intelligence community is working on industrial espionage to steal any relevant technology combined with bullying tactics. (ie You owe us so much money America. Why not give us access to that new computer tech and we will not dump a trillion American dollars on the foreign exchange.) The drawbacks of participatory democracy are becoming alarmingly clear in the USA. China will outshine America in as little as 20 years.

In both countries the elites get exactly what they want. Pretending governments are still the problem is sooooo 20th century. Multinational corporations rule now. You are now a member of the most direct Democracy ever created. The world market. What you buy is your vote. Since CEO's are technically voted in by how much profit/votes they make they are our true elected leaders. Not the corrupt anachronisms left over from the previous age.

May the invisible hand protect us from all harm. Blessed be Laissez Faire.

Anyway, Hi everybody
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Re: Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

Postby ronnewmexico » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:58 am

Well I'm with you pretty much sort of till the blessed by Laissez Faire.part.

I follow economics and the current state of such thngs as I trade such things as stock commodities and currencies to supplement income. Lack of government oversite is exactly what got us into the present debacle. The debacle came within a hairsbreath of stopping all trade internationally. All commerce movement of goods is based on a credit basis. To do a simple thing like load a ship you must first have a letter of credit. NO letter no shipments. Shipments were stopping as no one(banks) could trust the credit of another. No one knew who held what do to lack of governmental oversight and regulation. So no one trusted anyones credit. No bail out.....everything was stopping. Imagine living in any city in any country that no longer had goods able to be shipped to it daily.....mass starvation was the prospect and we were one step away. Goods would eventually be moved but only by military means and societal breakdown.

NOw the bail out....certainly a giveaway, free money with no strings attached basically. But the necessity of a bail out(though not in that form) was undeniable. This is after all a corpocracy not a democracy in the US at least. or perhaps a state of and for the corporation and corporate interest.

But Laissez Faire that is exactly what got us to this place. I can elaborate if necessary.

As a aside..China cannot dump our dollar nor our debt. They do so as they are its largest holder they depreciate the value of their holdings. It would be economic suicide. They can stop buying our debt which it appears they have already done. Nothing more can they do.

China has not even started to institute social programs to bring them from third world status to first world such as social security and universal health care. They must tackle these problems to stimulate their domestic consumption and decrease their personal savings rate. When that happens they may then be said to have progressed to first world status. So the playing field which is now disproportionally tilted to China will then be leveled. Then we will see who is to win this economic game. Right now....this is preseason so don't place any bets. They may succeed in this they may not.

I can elaborate on this as well.

I am no economic theorist, I need to know these things to trade things and make gains. My principal trading asset at this time is a vehicle that approximates the Chinese currency, which is intentionally by the Chinese government currently pegged to the US dollar(another reason they cannot drop the US dollar).

I anticipate the dropping of the peg sometime this year(due to inflation in China) and the steady appreciation of the Chinese currency as consequence. So I reap that gain, which I'd guess to be 3 or 4 percent short term. If they keep the peg I loose virtually nothing since my trade is in dollars, which due to the peg stays equal in percentage terms to the Chinese currency. So its a low risk trade.

To trade that I have to know what really goes on not talking points by political pundits. So I do.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

Postby Nemo » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:21 pm

Actually the post was meant to be sardonic.
Early economists clearly saw capitalism without mortality as a predator that will devour everything and eventually itself. The current deification of capitalism is ridiculous.

Adam Smith 1759
"Where there is no moral framework. No ethical sensibility. The market ends up devouring all the other sectors and then devours itself."
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Re: Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

Postby ronnewmexico » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:30 pm

Well in the US at least a bell of sorts has rung.

The Dems lost a seat held for 47 years by a dem who passed. The reason behind this taking away all the political nonsense and propoganda from both sides is....the people see the bankers and such getting a free ride and a free pass.

Today we find Obama talking about(coincidentally) reigning in the excesses of those peoples.

So for now at least to continue to hold power they(the dems) must do this thing they actually do not want to do at all....reign in the excesses of capitalism wound out of control.

Till this political firestorm blows over that is. So for now at least some political good seems bound to come however temporary.

They honestly do not know in their ignorance they are playing with a fire that could stop international trade in its tracks virtually overnight and cause the direct starvation of literally billions of peoples....they all are literally that stupid.
Incredible truly incredible.

The longer i live in this life the more I find..... ability to communicate very effectively (with rare exceptions such as HHDL) equates not at all, to ability to think through things in a comprehensive manner.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

Postby muni » Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:58 pm

Humanity.

Feb 9, 2010
Quake activist gets 5 years

BEIJING - A CHINESE court Tuesday sentenced an activist who investigated the deaths of thousands of schoolchildren in the country's massive 2008 earthquake to five years in jail for inciting subversion of state power, the man's lawyer said.

The United States deplored the sentence handed down to Tan Zuoren by a court in southwestern Sichuan province, saying such convictions were politically motivated and urging China to immediately release the activist and others similarly prosecuted.

Attorney Pu Zhiqiang said Tan was convicted and sentenced Tuesday by the Chengdu Intermediate Court. Tan's trial in August had concluded with no ruling, during which police detained and threatened his supporters.

The conviction of inciting subversion of state power was based on Tan's activities in recent years to draw attention to the 1989 student-led demonstrations in Beijing's Tiananmen Square that ended in a deadly military crackdown. China routinely uses such broad and vaguely defined charges of subversion to imprison dissidents, sometimes for years.

But Tan's supporters and human rights groups believe authorities were trying to silence him for his investigation into the collapse of schools in the 7.9-magnitude earthquake that struck in Sichuan province in May 2008, leaving almost 90,000 dead or missing. Tan estimated at least 5,600 students were among the dead, while a figure released by the government last May put the count at 5,335.

Tan, 56, started his investigation in December 2008 and hoped to complete it before the May 12 anniversary of the quake the following year, but he was detained in late March. 'Tan thinks one of the reasons behind this case is that he was leading an investigation into the poorly built schools after the earthquake, which would have embarrassed the local government in Chengdu,' Pu said.
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Re: Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

Postby Clueless Git » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:31 am

Nemo wrote:Actually the post was meant to be sardonic.
Early economists clearly saw capitalism without mortality as a predator that will devour everything and eventually itself. The current deification of capitalism is ridiculous.

Adam Smith 1759
"Where there is no moral framework. No ethical sensibility. The market ends up devouring all the other sectors and then devours itself."

Echoed in Gandhi's 'Seven Deadly Social Sins' under the heading of "Commerce Without Conscience".
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Re: Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

Postby muni » Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:46 pm

Three focusses of the Dalai Lama

- To promote human values in order to better the lives of human beings
- To promote religious harmony in the world and the region
- To promote the Tibetan cause: the preservation of the Tibetan nation as a people, and the preservation of Tibetan culture and knowledge as well as the Tibetan language.
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Re: Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

Postby Indrajala » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:31 pm

China isn't following a communist ideology anymore.

The state doesn't own the means of production for one thing.

Considering what businesses get away with in China to begin with, I would venture to say in practise Canada is more socialist than China.

Unless they plan to reacquire all those means of production (which is unlikely because it would lead to ruin), calling China a communist country is misleading.
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Re: Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

Postby kirtu » Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:25 am

Huseng wrote:Unless they plan to reacquire all those means of production (which is unlikely because it would lead to ruin), calling China a communist country is misleading.


But it is a totalitarian society.

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Re: Either china communism falls or Humanity perishes

Postby Indrajala » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:45 am

kirtu wrote:
Huseng wrote:Unless they plan to reacquire all those means of production (which is unlikely because it would lead to ruin), calling China a communist country is misleading.


But it is a totalitarian society.

Kirt


Sure, but that doesn't mean it is communist.
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