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Copyright - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Copyright

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Cittasanto
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Re: Copyright

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:37 pm

it has been claimed that editors will edit in line with cost effectiveness, and I think this may be true in some cases, but I think with Dhamma Material such as the Tipitaka or commentaries are concerned it would be a case of readability, even A2I has suttas with lots of repetition edited and cost isn't really a problem for them, low overheads etc.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
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He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Copyright

Postby BudSas » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:18 am


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Re: Copyright

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:31 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Copyright

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:26 am


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Re: Copyright

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:34 pm

It is worth noting that BPS do grant permission when asked, allot of things are available on google books etc for free and with permission.
If these free distributors done their own work there wouldn't be a problem, but they don't they rely on others doing it for them then making cheep reproductions.

personally I would sooner pay for a texts and support those doing the work than get a poor reproduction photocopy.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Copyright

Postby poto » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:19 pm


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Re: Copyright

Postby Chula » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:08 am


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Re: Copyright

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:37 am


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Re: Copyright

Postby BudSas » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:56 am

Hi,

Nowadays, with affordable and fast internet connection and with many Buddhist websites storing large number of Dhamma books, perhaps free distribution of books may not be as relevant as it used to be, when I first became interested in Buddhist study.

Back in the 1980s and early 1990s, when Dhamma materials on the Net were not widely available, I think those organisations involved in printing and distributing free Dhamma books did a great service to propagate the Dhamma to the world, especially to people of low income and those living in developing countries.

Having said that, I must also add that I have been subscribing to the BPS (Sri Lanka) as an Associate Member for more than 30 years and I wholeheartedly support their mission.

BDS

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Re: Copyright

Postby Chula » Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:00 pm


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Re: Copyright

Postby LauraJ » Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:09 pm




Conquer the angry man by love. Conquer the ill-natured man by goodness. Conquer the miser with generosity. Conquer the liar with truth. -The Dhammapada

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Re: Copyright

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:12 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Copyright

Postby Chula » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:26 pm

Hey Manapa,

Yea I agree you do have a point. I guess it could be argued that it's still a Pārājikā, but since there's no actual "taking of what is not given" (only copying - not depriving one of his possessions), I think the 2nd precept isn't broken. Of course this is just my own conjecture, but posting a Dhamma book online being a violation of the second precept just does not make sense to me especially considering the poster is not pursuing monetary benefits.

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Re: Copyright

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:57 pm

hi
because that rule needs reinterpreting for modern times in this regard it, it does for the reasons I pointed out and doesn't for other aspects of the rule, such as the inhabited area!
but it would still fall under the precept with interpretation for copyright simply because the taking of something belonging to another even if they don't know, and they don't find out, would still be theft, plus these have a conditional usage, even if a book (in this case) belonged to you or me, the content of the book doesn't. we are solely bying the right to use the book not the content, and even free distribution books can have conditions of use, such as thanissaros books and books from Amaravati have different conditions, thanissaros conditions are basically do what you like no need to ask permission so long as you don't sell in any way, and Amaravati has the condition of asking permission to quote for any reason above and beyond the standard allowable amount, but reproducing the books for free distribution is granted without permission.
but with Dhammic Books we are buying the Book and the work that goes into the book itself not the Dhamma. and in a way if you think about it you can not buy Dhamma.
anyway having to go out now so won't get another immediate(ish) reply :tongue: back in about 8 hours


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Chula
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Re: Copyright

Postby Chula » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:44 pm

Just thinking in terms of the second precept, I think if we redefine what it means whenever the laws of the world changes, then when you break it becomes very relative. For example, in Sri Lanka the concept of copyright is rarely considered or adhered to - especially when it comes to publishing on the Internet. So does that mean it's not breaking the precept to publish a Sri Lankan work online? And when the laws become stringent and enforced does it all of a sudden become a violation of the precept?

I think if we go by what the world considers theft then we will hard time defining what the five precepts entail - especially in this Internet age where immediate replicability makes these matters more complicated. I would stick to looking at in terms of one's intent at the end of the day...

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Re: Copyright

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:33 pm

Hi Chula,

I really don't see the problem, and I feel that these legalistic discussions about precepts completely miss the point. These precepts are just a very minimal level of sila, and it seems clear to me that we should aim to exceed them (e.g. not just not kill, but also mimize harm to other beings).

A key reason for keeping to the precepts is to make us "blameless", so that if anyone accuses us of wrongdoing we are confident that is it not the case. Not that I can always practise this effectively, but it's clear that it leads to a much greater sense of calm when I do.

For example, to pick on a simpler case, I have not drunk alcohol for about three years. So when I encounter a breath-test roadblock I have absolutely no feelings of guilt arising (though I sometimes feel a minor annoyance that it may make me late...). If I had had even one or two of drinks I know I'd be wondering about what might come up on the test. I know I'd be much less calm.

Similarly, if I've broken any law or rule of my employer, etc, it leads to agitation. Will the IRD find out about some payment that I didn't write on my return, etc?

The precepts are voluntary. If you try to keep them you'll feel better and so you'll progress better. If you are doing something that you think might violate a precept ask yourself if you really need to do it, or whether you'd feel better if you didn't.

Metta
Mike

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Chula
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Re: Copyright

Postby Chula » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:11 am


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Re: Copyright

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:30 am


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Re: Copyright

Postby suanck » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:22 am


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Re: Copyright

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:58 am

hi All,
Interesting turn while I was out!

I had thought my post may of gotten some rougher objection to it as it was half rushed, so I wasn't sure if I was clear, or not?
but looks like I was clear enough :tongue:

redefine may be a poor word, as would be my choice earlier, maybe a better one would be 'understand the new model which would potentially require application,' would be a better, but certainly longer, way??

I see the vinaya as a sort of Vibhanga to the precepts (in some cases), and certainly some can be applicable to the five, eight, or 10, and unfortunately the legalistic take has its uses while discussing this, and any new "interpretations" or 'applicaions based on modern methods needs to be looked at to some degree so we either collectively or individually see the 'dangers' which may not be so obvious to some.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.


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