Dharma Wheel

A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
It is currently Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:30 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Space and Dzogchen
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 12:52 pm 
Offline
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:12 pm
Posts: 1061
I'd like to talk about space. :alien:

In my understanding of Dzogchen, there are three kinds of space that we can talk about. There's the ordinary, dualistic outer space in which things exist. In relation to the practice of Trekcho practice, there are two other types that are discovered. There is also the inner space of the mind where thoughts etc. are experienced as being without any kind of actual 'place' of appearing or thing that creates them. This is inner ying - nang ying (nang dbyings). The outer space has a similar nature, where there is no fixed place to things that arise and they are not solid or within any kind of objective frame of reference. Basically, there's no place they arise, stay or disappear - similar to the nature of the mind. This is outer ying - chos ying.

I've a few questions/things I'd like to discuss:
Is there anything other than a nominal difference between outer ying and inner ying? What exactly is the relation between normal space and the two yings? Is it simply ying that has been frozen by grasping?
To what extent can space said to be emptiness itself? I know that there is a danger in Dzogchen of merely meditating on space.
What is the exact relationship between inner ying, outer ying and rigpa? It's my understanding that the yings are the space-like nature of rigpa.

_________________
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Space and Dzogchen
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:56 pm 
Offline
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:12 pm
Posts: 1061
No one have something to say? I thought it was an interesting topic...

_________________
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Space and Dzogchen
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
Hayagriva wrote:
No one have something to say? I thought it was an interesting topic...



it is, that is why can't say much about it.

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Space and Dzogchen
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:07 am
Posts: 886
I'll start: space is just empty. The mind is space like in the sense there is nothing to be seen there. But it is not space, because it is your mind which experiences everything.

_________________
CAW!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Space and Dzogchen
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:22 pm
Posts: 386
Location: Waponi Woo
:popcorn:

_________________
"Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise." --Surangama Sutra

Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Space and Dzogchen
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:56 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm
Posts: 3142
Hayagriva wrote:
I'd like to talk about space. :alien:

In my understanding of Dzogchen, there are three kinds of space that we can talk about. There's the ordinary, dualistic outer space in which things exist. In relation to the practice of Trekcho practice, there are two other types that are discovered. There is also the inner space of the mind where thoughts etc. are experienced as being without any kind of actual 'place' of appearing or thing that creates them. This is inner ying - nang ying (nang dbyings). The outer space has a similar nature, where there is no fixed place to things that arise and they are not solid or within any kind of objective frame of reference. Basically, there's no place they arise, stay or disappear - similar to the nature of the mind. This is outer ying - chos ying.

I've a few questions/things I'd like to discuss:
Is there anything other than a nominal difference between outer ying and inner ying? What exactly is the relation between normal space and the two yings? Is it simply ying that has been frozen by grasping?
To what extent can space said to be emptiness itself? I know that there is a danger in Dzogchen of merely meditating on space.
What is the exact relationship between inner ying, outer ying and rigpa? It's my understanding that the yings are the space-like nature of rigpa.


What you are talking about here is a Dzogchen practice called mingling the three-fold space. My understanding is that you are supposed to apply it not discuss it. Anyway, just to say something, none of the three spaces are inherently dualistic.

/magnus

_________________
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Space and Dzogchen
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:11 am
Posts: 460
Location: South Africa
Here is a good spot to use the :alien: smiley.

I always wanted to do that, but never had a wonderfully appropriate opportunity. Like this is.

Other than that ..... :reading:

_________________
As bad as bad becomes its not a part of you

Talk Talk


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group