"Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby ronnewmexico » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:14 am

Just my personal opinion one reading....Mahamudra: The Quintessence of Mind & Meditation

may also find interesting Clarifying the Natural state which was Dakpo Tashi Namgyal's practice text accompanment(condensed to the practical) to the above.
And Khenchen Thrangu Rinpoche's Crystal Clear on the subject matter, the Clarifying the Natural state... his teachings on this .

So if I read the first I would read the others certainly.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby conebeckham » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:47 am

Bokar Rinpoche's book is intended for those who've had transmission of Chakchen Ngedon Gyamtso....it's kind of a distillation, or a cheat sheet, of the whole book.....very useful for refreshing one's memory but the full explication is only found in the Ngedon Gyamtso.

If you've had that transmission though, Opening the Door is invaluable.
Last edited by conebeckham on Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby adinatha » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:38 am

Jinzang wrote:
Bokar Rinpoche wrote a similar, condensed guide to Mahamudra as outlined in the Chakchen Ngedon Gyamtso, called "Opening the Door to Certainty." I recommend it. It's great for practitioners. And less of a strain to carry around!


I was a little disappointed in this book, too short. I think the best introduction to mahamudra is Thrangu Rinpoche's new book Vivid Awareness. Actually it's a unified presentation of mahamudra and dzogchen based on Khenpo Gangshar's instructions.

The best book on mahamudra (though I haven't read them all) is still Takpo Tashi Namgyal's "Mahamudra: The Quintessence of Mind & Meditation,"


No way. That is a treatise with various textual supports and arguments. This Roberts book has the best Mahamudra instructions in print thus far. Even better descriptions are forthcoming.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby adinatha » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:57 am

FYI, any text that talks about examining your mind in various ways, then leads to shamatha and vipashyana is sutra mahamudra. Tantra mahamudra is with two stages, deity yoga and Six Yogas of Naropa. There's co-emergent mahamudra that is connected to guru yoga. In the Roberts text, the first few chapters or so are dedicated to the reality of mahamudra, the mahamudra that cannot be taught, aka Ganga Mahamudra. Gongchig explains how it all fits together. A Kagyu practitioner should understand all these things. Obviously, it helps to learn all these things with a magical lama. Then, the wonder of the Kagyu lineage unfolds.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby mindyourmind » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:08 am

adinatha wrote:
Even better descriptions are forthcoming.



Please elaborate on that?
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby adinatha » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:10 pm

More essential instructions about Mahamudra are coming.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Josef » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:54 pm

adinatha wrote: This Roberts book has the best Mahamudra instructions in print thus far.

I agree.
This book is by far the best available in English on the subject.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby conebeckham » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:28 pm

Adinatha, could you give us more specific info about what else "is coming," if you can? Inquiring minds want to know, and all that.... :smile:
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby adinatha » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:22 pm

Ganga Mahamudra pith instructions.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Jinzang » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:26 am

Hmm... I thought pith instructions weren't supposed to be published. The pith instructions I got specifically say so in the text, (Though, glory be, they are out there on the internet anyway, with the translation fudging the stricture away.) I hope in our zeal to understand mahamudra we don't lose sight of the necessary teacher student connection that makes it vital.
Lamrim, lojong, and mahamudra are the unmistaken path.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby adinatha » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:42 am

Surprises happen everyday. We'll see what happens. Maybe the feeling is that there needs to be some clear instructions out there.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Jinzang » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:57 am

The reason for not publishing the pith instructions is that to have full impact they must be fresh to the person who hears them. If they are not, the person receives them with a jaded mind: "Yes, I've read that before. Have you got anything new to tell me?" This is not my opinion. It is the explanation given by Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby adinatha » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:35 am

Anyway, we can talk about the Roberts book for now.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby conebeckham » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:21 pm

Mine arrived yesterday. It is, indeed, a treasure. Great translations of important texts, outlining both the Path of Liberation and the Path of Means, which are the two streams of transmission stemming from Gampopa. In particular, this book offers the most complete explanations of the Path of Means translated into English thus far. If you take this book, along with the Chakchen Ngedon Gyamtso, and Dakpo Tashi Namgyal's MoonBeams of Mahamudra, you have the essential heart of the Kagyu lineages.

I'm looking forward to Volume 8, as well! But this will remain a reference and tool for the rest of my life.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby mindyourmind » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:05 am

conebeckham wrote:Mine arrived yesterday. It is, indeed, a treasure. Great translations of important texts, outlining both the Path of Liberation and the Path of Means, which are the two streams of transmission stemming from Gampopa. In particular, this book offers the most complete explanations of the Path of Means translated into English thus far. If you take this book, along with the Chakchen Ngedon Gyamtso, and Dakpo Tashi Namgyal's MoonBeams of Mahamudra, you have the essential heart of the Kagyu lineages.

I'm looking forward to Volume 8, as well! But this will remain a reference and tool for the rest of my life.


A treasure for this life, indeed. I find it interesting to consider how many of us have in fact in past lives come into contact with these teachings. The teachings being there again, for the mind again to work with. I find this a wonderful thought. Comforting, yet also a spur to do better this time, to use it better.

Just rambling :smile:
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby conebeckham » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:40 pm

The Translator's Introduction was interesting--Peter Roberts brings his scholar-hat and puts it firmly on, taking the side of Western Scholarship vs. hagiographical legend. I like it. (I'm talking mainly about dates, and conflations of various figures with the "same name.")

Also, interesting that the Terma Milarepa practiced (As a "sorcerer" prior to meeting Marpa) is in Rinchen Terdzo and is maintained by the Drikungpas! That was news to me.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby ronnewmexico » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:25 pm

Well, I like this kind of rambling..."A treasure for this life, indeed. I find it interesting to consider how many of us have in fact in past lives come into contact with these teachings. The teachings being there again, for the mind again to work with. I find this a wonderful thought. Comforting, yet also a spur to do better this time, to use it better. "

Some take it as outside agent force of Buddha whatever. Some take it as mind itself as agent of source. Some take it as the innate nature of reality itself reaching out grasping out, to have us understand, as all is essentially conscious understanding.

I tend towards the third. My life seems impossible for me to attach to extreams. Too wound up in thought or some things, and I actually get physcially disabled. So my attention is mandated. Situations as well...to attached they dissolve before me. Things just leading me it seems I have not a bit of choice in this thing. Circumstances always leading in a certain way....what's a mother to do :smile:
So I must consider these things, it is impossible not to. Comforting yet different as well...Flying through air.... off a cliff perhaps........ for years and years time, no ground, no ceiling, just on and on. The normal of things left far far behind.
So that's another ramble...

or....

I for one am a sucker for those kind of rambles...love them I do....
Thanks for the memory MYOM....I feel totally comforted right about now.
Glad to see a mahamudra thread on this board...real glad.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby mindyourmind » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:02 pm

ronnewmexico wrote:Well, I like this kind of rambling..."A treasure for this life, indeed. I find it interesting to consider how many of us have in fact in past lives come into contact with these teachings. The teachings being there again, for the mind again to work with. I find this a wonderful thought. Comforting, yet also a spur to do better this time, to use it better. "

Some take it as outside agent force of Buddha whatever. Some take it as mind itself as agent of source. Some take it as the innate nature of reality itself reaching out grasping out, to have us understand, as all is essentially conscious understanding.

I tend towards the third. My life seems impossible for me to attach to extreams. Too wound up in thought or some things, and I actually get physcially disabled. So my attention is mandated. Situations as well...to attached they dissolve before me. Things just leading me it seems I have not a bit of choice in this thing. Circumstances always leading in a certain way....what's a mother to do :smile:
So I must consider these things, it is impossible not to. Comforting yet different as well...Flying through air.... off a cliff perhaps........ for years and years time, no ground, no ceiling, just on and on. The normal of things left far far behind.
So that's another ramble...

or....

I for one am a sucker for those kind of rambles...love them I do....
Thanks for the memory MYOM....I feel totally comforted right about now.
Glad to see a mahamudra thread on this board...real glad.



Glad to have helped you ramble, old friend. And yes, a mahamudra thread is a great treat. Our fault - we need to ramble more :smile:
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby ronnewmexico » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:38 pm

Having now read some.

Seems pretty nice. Has a golden thread to mark where you are or leave off...which is very nice also.

Me being partial to mountains as my monicker attests like this...

There are three methods for remaining within the area of a dharma practitioner: (a) The supreme method is to continuously remain within that area by staying in the mountains. (b) The medium method is to remain within that area by staying in a closed retreat. (c) The lowest method is to remain within that area by receiving teaachings and keeping the three vows"

not to infer I have any bit of a understanding of anything of this.
Superior views are quite lost on me, being so simple. Probably best to not expound on them, at least not to me....they would be quite lost on a tool this dull, in that shed of tools, we abide.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby mindyourmind » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:38 am

I am slowly working through these texts - wow, what a special book this is.

Busy with the "Bright Torch" text now. :reading:
Inspiring stuff.
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