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Climate Change and Copenhagen - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Climate Change and Copenhagen

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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cooran
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby cooran » Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:24 pm

Hello all,


The US government has declared that greenhouse gases threaten human health.
The move could allow the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to order cuts in emissions without the approval of Congress.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8400323.stm

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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poto
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Re: Climate change and Copenhagen

Postby poto » Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:34 pm


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fig tree
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby fig tree » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:09 am


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Dan74
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby Dan74 » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:24 pm

Thank you for a great post, fig tree. I have reposted it at ZFI . I hope you don't mind.

_/|\_
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pink_trike
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby pink_trike » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:37 pm

Our premodern ancestors speak of those times when the "seasons become two" - extreme hot and extreme cold.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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Rui Sousa
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby Rui Sousa » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:22 pm

This Climategate stuff is really giving me serious doubts about the whole subject.

It worries me greatly that two of the main sources (NASA-GISS and CRU) for land temperature measurements, the very evidence that the earth's temperature is rising, have so poor software doing the calculations of temperature trends. Here is just one article were the a bit of the CRU source code is examined: . I believe this will be meaningful to anyone with a minor understanding of programming.

I am a software development project manager, and I if one of my programmers presented me source code as the one I saw on NASA and CRU, I would fire him, or send him back to school to have programming lessons. Also I would "kick his brain" for one or two hours to make him realize the importance of writing good quality code, and how software development has evolved in the past 3 decades !!! (they don't even use databases, they only use text files to handle data as complex and sensitive as this) :thinking:

A subject as serious as manmade climatic changes deserves better software, yet decisions are being made based on the bad software that there is...
With Metta

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poto
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby poto » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:08 am


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Lampang
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby Lampang » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:44 am


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Dan74
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby Dan74 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:56 am

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poto
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby poto » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:31 am


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cooran
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby cooran » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:44 am

Hello all,



Mr Nguyen cycled through 22 countries on his way to Copenhagen.

An Australian cyclist who has spent 16 months cycling from Brisbane to the UN climate talks in Copenhagen says the journey has given him a host of accounts of how global warming is changing lives for the worse.

Kim Nguyen, 28, says he first realised the severity of climate change talking to farmers in East Timor.

"They were telling me that during the last three years they had not been able to grow enough food to eat and survive because the rains that usually came at a certain time of the year were not coming," he said.

"And then when they did come they came in a deluge and there were floods."

On a worn map of the world that he used throughout his 18,000-kilometre trek, Mr Nguyen's finger traces the 22 countries he covered on his journey.

His trip covered East Timor, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, China, Mongolia, Russia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Turkey, then eastern and central Europe before finally reaching Denmark.

"The bike started falling apart after 6,000 kilometres so I still had 12,000 kilometres to go," he said.

"I fixed things by myself but I travelled really long distances with poor components that I eventually only could fix when I arrived in Europe."

Mr Nguyen said he usually biked 100 kilometres a day three days in a row, then took a day off before hopping on the saddle again.

He came up with the idea for his adventure 18 months ago after a friend told him about the UN climate conference.

After seeing first-hand severe flooding in south-east Asia, the spreading of the Gobi desert in Mongolia and dried up riverbeds in north-eastern China, his observations of the planet's woes pushed him to transform his adventure from a one-man affair into a joint action.

"It came out of my thoughts when I had been cycling for quite some time, thinking, actually one guy on a bike isn't much of a big deal," he said.

"Even if he's coming to Copenhagen how is that going to achieve anything."

So in each big city where he stopped, he decided to contact the local branches of environmental groups Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth, his sponsor, to help create a network of people who followed his journey and collected his testimony of climate change around the world.

News of his adventure began to spread, and he found himself making friends on the road near the end of his trip.

When he arrived in Copenhagen on Sunday, some 60 cyclists followed him into the city centre.
[.............................] - AFP
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... 766600.htm

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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pink_trike
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby pink_trike » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:11 am

I'm also no longer entirely convinced that the warming we're experiencing is primarily human-caused. And I'm old enough to know that when there are politicians, scientific researchers, international relations, and business interests as central players then we are basically looking at something akin to Alice in Wonderland where appearances mean nothing and truth is always very far from evident and remains undisclosed to the masses.

About 7 years ago I began research for a book that required an examination of premodern civilizations and their oral/folk/mythic records. One of the first things that really jumped out at me was that they were obsessed with climate, and that climate drove their lives. In our modern world of push button climate-controlled environments we forget how primary (even visceral) the relationship humans have with climate really is. In an effort to better understand the premodern's relationship with climate and its emphasis in their meticulous records that frequently matched on opposite sides of the globe, I began researching the part of the geological record and ice core samplings that reflect climate patterns over the last 100,000 years - and I was really surprised by what I learned.

- Periods of climate extremes ranging from decades to 1500 years and longer are not rare. In fact, extreme variations are the norm when looked at with some distance.

- The warming predictions that have been driving the "global warming" debate...a 3-6 degree F warming over this century, are quite mild when compared to warming periods found in the geological record and in ice core samplings which show repeated warming periods, some as high as 27 degree fahrenheit within the previous approx. 10,000 years (a nano-blink of the eye in global time). Interestingly, our premodern ancestors throughout the Americas record a time within the last 10,000 years when it become so hot that rivers and streams evaporated away killing most of life except those that lived deep under the soil and in underground caves (where some humans survived). And, in what is now Turkey there are well-preserved underground cities that are now dated to at least approx 10,000 BCE that extend down 18 stories below the surface of the earth, connected by miles of tunnels, that would have housed up to 200,000 people - complete with extensive stables and ventilation systems (young archeology described these as a defense against warring neighbor countries, an explanation that falls apart with even the slightest critical examination and that is generally no longer accepted within the field). These underground networked cities with thousands of "apartments" maintain an even cool temperature even in the hottest days of summer.

- The geological record also shows regular periods of extreme drought, and extreme rain. The human genetic record preserves evidence of a monumental die-off of the human race that corresponds with a severe (from our perspective) drought that reduced the human population to several thousand survivors in Africa around 70,000 BCE (another nano-blink of global time). Premodern First People in the Americas matter-of-factly record a witnessed time when raindrops as large as human heads inundated the land for a long period of time, driving living beings up to mountain tops to survive - while the geological records shows countless layers of repeated massive flooding all over the globe periodically throughout the previous 10,000 years.

- Premodern traditions on opposite sides of the globe speak of those times when the seasons are reduced to just two - harsh cold and harsh heat. And other extended periods of times when climate is wildly chaotic and unpredictable.

- It's recently been discovered that Earth's climate is affected by the climate of other planets (no, you probably didn't read about this in the daily news - but if you read science journals or visit other than "pop" science sites you may have). Oddly, I haven't seen any mention of this in the ongoing discussion regarding "global warming"

- There's much debate among climate physicists regarding what is causing Mars, Jupiter, Pluto, Triton, Venus, and other worlds in our solar system to also warm. I find it interesting that our premodern ancestors spoke of those times when the solar system travels in succession through hot, cold, wet, windy, and dust/gravel periods as it travels through its galactic orbit. It follows to reason (at least to me) that the galaxy would also have climate zones that would affect Earth's climate.

In light of these things, I've started to look differently at the "global warming" debate. Certainly our premodern ancestors didn't cause all of those previous extreme warming periods and the other countless climate extremes and periods of climate chaos. There's no doubt that modern human civilization has devastated the ecosystem and messed with the fragile balance between land, oceans, and atmosphere - but in light of what the geological record, ice core samples, genetic record, astrophysics, and premodern records reveal - I too am becoming more skeptical of the idea that humans are the primary cause of "global warming" ("global chaos" is a more precise way to describe the climate situation) on Planet Earth. My guess is that "we don't have a clue" is a better answer, and that the debate likely masks special interests related to funding streams, profit streams, strategic international relations, and manipulation of voting blocs to preserve and advance entrenched power...a part of the debate that the common masses aren't privy to.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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BlackBird
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby BlackBird » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:53 am

200,000 person underground cities in Turkey - 10,000BCE?

I'm not doubting you PT, but do you have a link there?
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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pink_trike
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby pink_trike » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:08 am

Hi Jack,

Way past my bedtime, so I grabbed this from google.

http://www.cappadociaturkey.net/undergroundcities.htm

If I find time, I'll dig out some info from my library.

If you research it further online, keep in mind that all archeology dates have been challenged during the last decade, and that the earliest evidence of civilization by strict anthropological criteria now stands at 85,000 BCE. Most non-scholar articles online don't reflect current knowledge. These are extraordinary times...even as young as you are, much of what you were taught in school is out of date. Education can't keep up with the information age.
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Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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cooran
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby cooran » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:08 am

Interesting post PT.

Could you give links to most of the statements you made? ....like to look further into it.

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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pink_trike
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby pink_trike » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:09 am

More
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Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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pink_trike
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby pink_trike » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:13 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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BlackBird
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby BlackBird » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:32 am

Oh no hurry Jeff. Getting some rest is actually far more important than satiating my worldly thirst for knowledge

I'm quite fascinated by these concepts you have put forth, which seem to directly challenge the idea that any civilization during this period was necessarily hunter/gatherer, and at least partially nomadic.

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"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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retrofuturist
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:48 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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pink_trike
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Re: Climate Change and Copenhagen

Postby pink_trike » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:00 am

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Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.


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