New Century Foundation / Lama Norbu

[Jikan]

My wife noticed a flier for an event featuring this fellow at a local yoga center.

http://www.ncfinternational.org/norbu.html

What's going on here?

At first glace this appears to be a case of an authentically-trained Geshe "going Galt" and taking the spiritual alternative route. Or... ? I don't get it and I don't want to be presumptuous.

[Malcolm]

My wife noticed a flier for an event featuring this fellow at a local yoga center.

http://www.ncfinternational.org/norbu.html

What's going on here?

At first glace this appears to be a case of an authentically-trained Geshe "going Galt" and taking the spiritual alternative route. Or... ? I don't get it and I don't want to be presumptuous.

Who knows if this guy is really a geshe.

N

[Dechen Norbu]

I does seem rather uncommon...
If I were to attend to his teachings, I would like to know more about his lineage, permission to teach and so on. Then I would be really careful about seeing if what he teaches is in accordance with the Buddhadharma. Wouldn't be my prime choice, but that's me...

[Dechen Norbu]

Who knows if this guy is really a geshe.

N

And even if he was a geshe... I'd still be careful.

[Malcolm]

it's obviously bullshit. Shiva garuda.

[conebeckham]

Hey, man....watch out, my secret innermost yidam is Shiva Garuda....




I am inclined to agree, my BS meter is blinking.

[Tilopa]

What's going on here?

Namdrol is right total bullshit.

As Lama Norbu explains it, the word "Lama" is comprised of the syllables La ("supreme") and Ma ("mother"), which when combined, mean "Supreme Mother."

NO WAY!

[Jikan]

He has a fantastic mane of hair. This will carry him far in the professional yoga circuit, as a face or a heel.

[Dharmaswede]

He's got some creative copy to boot...

"Finding the robes and formality of religion too confining, like the phoenix, he has been reborn. Having grown his hair and exchanged his robes for blue jeans, Norbu is truly spreading his yogic wings."

J.

[blue*angel]

I believe those who really want to see the truth have no difficulty finding it. There is plenty of information about Lama Norbu available on the internet. Here are some answers to the questions posted here.

Lama Norbu began his study of the Dharma in the Gelugpa lineage of Tibetan Buddhism and was ordained in Sera Mey Monastery in 1987: http://www.universal-wisdom.com/index/lamanorbu.html

As to validation of his credentials...
In 2004 Lama Norbu was one of the 14 monks who took part in the first Monks in the West conference at the City of Ten Thousand Buddhas: http://www.urbandharma.org/monksinwest.html
He was one of the 22 monks taking part in the Monks in the West II in 2006: http://www.urbandharma.org/mitw/mitw/mitw1/sitemap1.html
In 2008, Lama Norbu took part in Gethsemani 3: Monasticism and the Environment: http://www.urbandharma.org/G3/index.html.
These are just a handful of references I found after a few minutes of browsing the internet (Has anybody on this forum used Google before?).

Lama Norbu also wrote a wonderful book about his life journey, Love Sutra Lama: http://www.amazon.com/Love-Sutra-Lama-Norbu/dp/0982733763

The truth is - it's all out there if you care to look. And instead of speculating about a person whom you do not know yet and speaking ill of him, why not get to know him better? Why not hear his teaching first? We all have a lot to learn from Lama Norbu. And yes, I am blessed to have met him in person, and I have been to his workshops, and I have heard his teachings. And I must say, he is a true Teacher.

[Dharmaswede]

Dear Blue*Angel,

OK, I plead guilty - I could have googled more on him (not being sarcastic). I'll keep that in mind next time.

From the Amazon description of his book:
"He wants people to put sutras aside and not to limit their lives with religious rules."

Not my cup of Dharma.

If you feel that he is a good teacher for you, my best wishes. But be aware that in deviating from tradition he will be criticized as a teacher – and not just because "tradition says so". If you want to discuss the implications of this, I am sure there are some knowledge people on this forum who'd be willing to. But having critical discussions about one's teacher in a public forum can be quite disturbing, so you may want to think twice before doing it. (I am not trying to patronize you.)

Best Regards,

Jens

[username]

I believe those who really want to see the truth have no difficulty finding it. There is plenty of information about Lama Norbu available on the internet. Here are some answers to the questions posted here.

Lama Norbu began his study of the Dharma in the Gelugpa lineage of Tibetan Buddhism and was ordained in Sera Mey Monastery in 1987: http://www.universal-wisdom.com/index/lamanorbu.html

As to validation of his credentials...
In 2004 Lama Norbu was one of the 14 monks who took part in the first Monks in the West conference at the City of Ten Thousand Buddhas: http://www.urbandharma.org/monksinwest.html
He was one of the 22 monks taking part in the Monks in the West II in 2006: http://www.urbandharma.org/mitw/mitw/mitw1/sitemap1.html
In 2008, Lama Norbu took part in Gethsemani 3: Monasticism and the Environment: http://www.urbandharma.org/G3/index.html.
These are just a handful of references I found after a few minutes of browsing the internet (Has anybody on this forum used Google before?).

Lama Norbu also wrote a wonderful book about his life journey, Love Sutra Lama: http://www.amazon.com/Love-Sutra-Lama-Norbu/dp/0982733763

The truth is - it's all out there if you care to look. And instead of speculating about a person whom you do not know yet and speaking ill of him, why not get to know him better? Why not hear his teaching first? We all have a lot to learn from Lama Norbu. And yes, I am blessed to have met him in person, and I have been to his workshops, and I have heard his teachings. And I must say, he is a true Teacher.

Posting links to conference participations means nothing and plenty of weirdos after free refreshments in all of them.

1- As we have had lots of fake Geshes recently can you say who were his 'Geshe Finals Examiners' so we can check? Post a scan/photo of his Geshe Certificate on his site or as attachment here? Otherwise no cigar.

2- Provide providence and lineage data regarding his so-called 'Shiva Garuda Tantra' so we, as potential followers as is 'traditionally required' before taking empowerment, can check for ourselves?

Meanwhile any financial donors or followers or women being intimate with this character, Professional Celibate Conference Monk and lover of women at most other times, are well advised to get a second opinion on him, apart from his own, in confidence from their usual local legitimate Tibetan Buddhist center(s)'s lama(s) or teachers.

Meanwhile happy jumping around, which is much higher than TM centers' yogic seated hoppings!

[White¤Angel]

So here comes your second, well, may be second best, but first-eyes witness'es opinion:
Firstly, thanks to Jens (Dharmaswede) for such a respectful attitude.
If you ever heard Lama Norbu talking in public, there is no doubt about his honesty, sincerity and openness.
Even in his book there is frank acknowledgment that some may raise suspicion on his "true" motives and given Lama Norbu's unique life story this is quite understandable.
Just want to mention couple of points not to be missed:
- Shiva-Garuda is indeed an authentic Tantric Yoga teaching but not necessary part of Buddhadharma;
- references to Lama Norbu's Geshe degree in buddhist studies is obviously meant just to show his general education status and level of intellect. In fact, his is often dismissive about his "book knowledge" and tends to emphasize values of direct way of perception and learning.
- consequently any further details and particulars regarding aforementioned degree are not necessary since it is not them that give Lama Norbu authority to present Shiva-Garuda.
- neither it is participation in conferences and gatherings mentioned where he was seen and photographed as an invited speaker or member of his community, far cry from a "hungry weirdo" suggested earlier.
- as for the teachings lineage, its exact tracing may become uncovered it time, but appears to be of very little value for now. Besides, many authentic Vajrayana practices came to their originators in dreams or visions. How one would assign credibility in such instances?! So only because students perceived their value directly, teachers were able to pass them along.
And finally, as any good dharma practitioner knows, even the most true and pure teaching can become a poison when taken with a negative and selfish motive or attitude...
Now, please, don't get me started on the celibacy issue. Even yoga-banning Christian Orthodox church prefers their priests to be married and for a good reason: besides simply upholding a natural order of things, having not loved your life's partner, parent, sibling or child makes it so difficult to relate to others with genuine compassion!

Just keep in mind, from his own words Lama Norbu is eager to offer this gift to every open heart, weather it belongs to a Buddhist, Muslim, Christian or even a natural scientist like myself...
Please, do yourself a favor, come and see it with your own eyes:
http://www.ncfinternational.org/shivagaruda.html
Many blessings!

[username]

Hi White¤Angel,

A few people supporting each other in misrepresenting and/or attacking Dzogchen in unstable ways said I am too harsh on posts attacking Dzogchen lineages/masters or HHDL or those presenting Shiva Garuda, etc. So I leave the task of dealing with such topics to a few other posters and mods as I am busy anyway but let me say legally (as well as TB traditional-wise) once claiming a status (PhD, MD, Geshe, etc.) you have to produce the certificate which does not have to be on the wall and 'the great enlightened guru's distaste for such mundane matters' is irrelevant! Also if you claim Shiva Garuda (from a Sera monk of all places) is an "authentic Vajrayana practice" as you put it, then followers can and must ask for providence of it's legitimacy. I can go on about our Jekyll & Hyde (Sera/multifaith-ProConference monk! & Casanova) and your other listed points but I let you & others have some fun.

As far as you are concerned it is good to seek other teachers too as is the norm. If you are not encouraged then you are in a cultish situation plus added harmful emotional linkages. It is good to love women and men but not in abusive & spiritual power contexts, look at previous cases. You will be hurt so get ready. You might be called angel or Dakini, like others, but be ready to move on and any connection with Vajrayana is good and you most probably have it from previous lives. So after you get hurt and then a period of recovery, do it properly. There is nothing wrong with various levels of love, from initial attachments to non and higher, to progress with. You, like Blue¤Angel, obviously have a lot of precious love in your hearts and in the long term will be just fine. May you and Blue¤Angel and other similar friends always be well and happy and enlightened in this lifetime. Take care.

[White¤Angel]

Thanks, dear "username", for your sincere concerns. I have edited my post to make it more clear. Sounds like you have your share of stories to tell. Then why don't you, in place of making ungrounded accusations...
Sadly or luckily I am, too, well-seasoned in so-called cultish situations and could have been hurt but only gained experience...
Most of the times I just see how people hurt themselves though, even in a well-protected environments.
And no one is calling to forget all other Masters/teachings, just to lay those books aside once in a while and let open our senses.
In Peace,
your not-really White¤Angel .

[username]

Thanks, dear "username", for your sincere concerns. I have edited my post to make it more clear. Sounds like you have your share of stories to tell. Then why don't you, in place of making ungrounded accusations...
Sadly or luckily I am, too, well-seasoned in so-called cultish situations and could have been hurt but only gained experience...
Most of the times I just see how people hurt themselves though, even in a well-protected environments.
And no one is calling to forget all other Masters/teachings, just to lay those books aside once in a while and let open our senses.
In Peace,
your not-really White¤Angel .

Hi White¤Angel,

No stories, never been in cultish situs, even remotely. Can you imagine me, anti-organizational by nature, allowed into one? Following other teachers, while keeping your current ones as is the norm, is not just by books but in person. Lectures, empowerments, etc. Also glad you are well seasoned, I hope you keep an eye on the others and don't lose contact with them. On the old Jewish/Christian guilt complex, I think you are too harsh and judgmental on yourself. Look at the energies of guilt, nervousness, fear, envy, etc. all negative thoughts arising, as intrinsically pure energies which have 'apparently' deformed with our negative karmic vision. The essence of the 5 poisons, ignorance attachment dislike and the 2 minors jealousy and pride, which combine to give all other emotions are in essence the pure 5 wisdoms. Like thoughts, don't engage them but also don't block them. Look at them as energy vibes, like electricity, which can be liberating if recognized immediately by their types hence self-liberated. Like a shock that disintegrates one's self into aware clear empty bliss. They, all emotions and thoughts and our sense data, like everything else in the world affecting us constantly, can be used in this way any second of day or night or now to ride like a wave in joy effortlessly to our true home which is our real nature. Anyway that's what they say and sounds good. All histories are baggages that sentient beings let go of as we did in billions of lifetimes across the cosmos and most of which remains dormant in the alaya, so why not let them go now? You have nothing to be guilty of, just remain beautiful inside angel, where it matters.

Have a good week