YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful - Page 6 - Dhamma Wheel

Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
pink_trike
Posts: 1130
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:29 am
Contact:

Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby pink_trike » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:38 pm

Believing in literal rebirth and not believing in literal rebirth are both just opportunities to build stories, attach to them, defend them, and block potential for clarity.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5517
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby Aloka » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:48 pm


User avatar
Laurens
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:56 pm
Location: Norfolk, England

Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby Laurens » Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:36 am

"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Carl Sagan

User avatar
Lazy_eye
Posts: 996
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Laurel, MD
Contact:

Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby Lazy_eye » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:37 pm


User avatar
Laurens
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:56 pm
Location: Norfolk, England

Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby Laurens » Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:16 pm

"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Carl Sagan

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:30 pm

that would depend if it is an absolute metaphysical statement, or a reflective statement!


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

User avatar
Lazy_eye
Posts: 996
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Laurel, MD
Contact:

Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby Lazy_eye » Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:48 pm

I've found it somewhat helpful to consider rebirth in terms of its function within the dhamma, rather than in an absolute metaphysical sense. Two reasons:

I haven't seen what the Buddha saw, so any statement I make would boil down to "I believe and accept", "I don't believe", or "I don't know". At the same time, though, we can all make supportable (or not) statements about how rebirth impacts other teachings, such as kamma or merit; how it relates to the overall goal of liberation; how it accords with the Buddha's critique of materialism; why it's a skillful view; etc. So we can have a fruitful discussion.

For beginners, or at least a certain kind of beginner, this can be a way of getting beyond one's kneejerk resistance to the teaching. I can attest to that. :smile:

Sanghamitta
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby Sanghamitta » Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:02 pm

My approach is always... what do those teachers I respect say, based on their knowledge of the Canon and their own experience ? My own knowledge and experience is much too limited to resolve these things for myself. There is a clear consensus among Theravadin teachers concerning this issue and related issues like Rebirth. Until such time as I have direct knowledge of these things for myself, I will trust that consensus. Which is that Rebirth is literally true, and that hell states exist as more than metaphores. If I didnt accept that I would find a tradition that reflected what I think rather than attempt to change this one. ( Theravada ).
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

User avatar
Lazy_eye
Posts: 996
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Laurel, MD
Contact:

Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby Lazy_eye » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:44 pm


Cafael Dust
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:55 pm

Re: Anyone can go to hell, so be heedful

Postby Cafael Dust » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:12 pm

Ok. In conventional terms, the sky was blue last time I went outside.

In truth, nothing can be said. There's no separate sky, no separate blue, no last time, no outside or inside.

In conventional terms, I may firmly know that I have led a past life and may exist in a firmly defined reality in which this makes complete sense. I may prove it in a test tube or with logic or by finding it's veracity affirmed in mile high letters on the moon.

In truth, nothing can be said.

there is no story

Her eye rests in the marble like a galaxy
her son is rolling. A hamster spins its cage.
She shakes pages free of her fingers; Caryatids
and Atlas, elephants on a tortoiseshell
and something like God holds whosoever
wants to be held. Today he is rippling silver
beside some seaside town, she whorls smoke
through the gap, shedding ash. There is no story,
but keep talking love,
keep misting windows and painting your breath
into the clear of glass.
Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.


Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: unspoken and 35 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine