Mind/Rigpa and body relation

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby kalden yungdrung » Thu May 26, 2011 4:33 pm

The best meditation is no meditation

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Malcolm
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Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby Malcolm » Thu May 26, 2011 4:38 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby kalden yungdrung » Thu May 26, 2011 4:44 pm

The best meditation is no meditation

muni
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Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby muni » Thu May 26, 2011 4:49 pm

Rigpa on it; knowledge for schoolstudents. There are many Rigpa's and combinations.
In 'naked awareness' I see clear as emptiness and awareness. Pure awareness as Rigpa here.
Maybe self-"arising" (already is) gnosis= empty awareness.

Ma Rigpa = state sentient being. (not knowing)
I think the linguistic meaning is less important. Also nature is not in text revealing.

Ah.

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Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby username » Thu May 26, 2011 7:39 pm

1- Lets finish this horrible attack by someone who is attacking his former teacher in his interviews. Firstly he states that ChNNR was told to use 'presence' as a translation for rigpa by a drug addict. Then because he was not good at languages, he accepted that term and used it for rigpa. Firstly ChNNR knows more languages than most people including western translators. He speaks some very well like Tibetan and Mongolian and Italian and some adequately like English and some he can get by . So he is very good at languages. Secondly presence and instant are Latin based and the Italian is almost the same. So he did not need anyone to tell him what those two words were! So this is a second evil lie as he was working in an Italian University when the major Samaya breaker was still crying for lollipops.

2- Now lets finish the essence of this evil attack. ChNNR uses the term 'presence' not for rigpa but for "trenshe (dran shes)" and says the opposite of this is yengwa (g.yeng ba)) or distraction. I don't want to quote a whole paragraph from a restricted book even if it is the introductory material (not detail or practices) and what he says often publicly anyway. But lets finish this once and for all. See for yourselves on the first page, second paragraph of "The Four Chogshag: The practice of Tregchod". So presence means non-distraction and trying to create the conditions to be in rigpa. This is a translation of a teaching in Tsegyalgar from 1996, copyrighted in 1998, when certain major samaya breakers now promoting various falsehoods publicly, were around.

3- In the next immediate paragraph, third, he tackles Rigpa. He says: "Rigpa means knowledge or understanding but not on an intellectual level: it means being in a state of presence." Rigpa is Vidya and Vidya is a special form, highest form, of knowledge. Having that or rather being it, manifests in various ways effortlessly including obtaining various types of wisdoms, yeshes, jnanas, prajnas, etc. and even siddhis depending on the level attained. I have always felt the best translation for Rigpa is "Being 'The Knowledge'". Not even 'being in the knowledge' but being it non-dual, as it, which is the most natural state anyway, if only we allow all to be as they are (4 chogshags of Tregchod). And 'The Knowledge' to emphasize it as unique and ultimate as opposed to lower levels of conceptual time-bound conditioned knowledges. Gnosis, wisdom and awareness are bad and misleading terms too. But like Vidya, the best translation for Rigpa is Rigpa.

4- He uses the opposites for justifying meanings as is the norm from lotsawa days of King Trisong in both paragraphs, which Namdrol also uses. This oppositional methodology is a modern Structuralist and Deconstructivist approach too.

5- Finally a word of advice. If you visit a physical location/site and you see major Samaya breakers who have attacked their former Dzogchen master in public, then don't walk away, RUN. This is the advice in many teachings. Even if they coordinate and quote each other regularly and call each other beyond doubt. There are many reasons not to have karma with major Samaya breakers who are non-regretful and in happy continuation but that is off-topic. Also if you are not a Samaya breaker but when quoted and told one of your masters is being mis-quoted and proven to you to check for yourself, as above, but you still persist in repeating those lies a week later by a major Samaya breaker's interview, then you really need to sort out the real root of that problem, quickly.

Sarva Mangalam
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

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Fa Dao
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Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby Fa Dao » Thu May 26, 2011 7:51 pm

Heres a thought from a "newbie"...perhaps there just does not exist one single word in the English language that can adequately describe Rigpa? Perhaps translators need to find a combination or hyphenated word to get the idea across? or maybe even a short sentence? I have a short acronym I made up:
R-resting
I-in
G gnosis of
P-Presence and
A-Awareness
I am probably way off base but it seems to work for me...LOL
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby username » Thu May 26, 2011 7:59 pm

Unless one is a Lotsawa or putting in the effort in training to be one and already at a good level, then this continuing obsession with semantics' details by non-qualified people only becomes an obstacle to Rigpa which is beyond time, concepts and definitions anyway.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

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Fa Dao
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Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby Fa Dao » Thu May 26, 2011 8:12 pm

Yes, and the constant arguing about it amongst practitioners is SO much better. Didnt say that the 2 cents put in was worth anything more than 2 cents anyways...just a thought
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

Pero
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Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby Pero » Thu May 26, 2011 9:38 pm

Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby tamdrin » Fri May 27, 2011 12:49 am


Pero
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Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby Pero » Fri May 27, 2011 1:18 am

Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby kalden yungdrung » Fri May 27, 2011 1:21 am

The best meditation is no meditation

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Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby username » Fri May 27, 2011 2:23 am

Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby kalden yungdrung » Fri May 27, 2011 7:18 am

Last edited by kalden yungdrung on Fri May 27, 2011 4:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The best meditation is no meditation

muni
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Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby muni » Fri May 27, 2011 8:40 am

There is easier work than to 'translate' Rigpa or Vidya, in words. people ask and ask.
Practice reveal what is the meaning and all confusions and mental fixations are peace. So is there said.

Others' work is our joy. Simple.

Someone tea? :namaste:

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Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby username » Fri May 27, 2011 10:21 am

Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

muni
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby muni » Fri May 27, 2011 10:57 am

One easely look through own glasses, expecting all has same background and styles. How can we satisfy all?

Of course peaceful being is boring. :jedi:

Rigpa? Shooting mind projections. Come on, you are all working on my nerves! at least in my dream. no need to push me chocolat in my mouth with rotten teeth neither.

Saw Namdrol writing something about that forum E-Sangha in which Dzogchen closed or so. Well :popcorn: I need no explanations.

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Malcolm
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Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby Malcolm » Fri May 27, 2011 1:28 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Malcolm
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby Malcolm » Fri May 27, 2011 1:53 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

muni
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Mind/Rigpa and body relation

Postby muni » Fri May 27, 2011 3:19 pm



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