Lamdre.

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Lamdre.

Postby Caz » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:48 pm

Could someone please kindly explain what Lamdre is and how it is practised. :namaste:
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

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Re: Lamdre.

Postby Malcolm » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:00 pm

Caz wrote:Could someone please kindly explain what Lamdre is and how it is practised. :namaste:


Lam 'bras, the path together with the result is the main teaching of the Sakya school.

The core of it is a concise set of instructions termed "vajra verses" written by the Mahasiddha Virupa for his disciple Krishnapa and brought to Tibet by Gayadhara, bestowed upon Drogmi Lotsawa.

The main practices of Lamdre center on the creation and completion stages of the Yidam Hevajra. Nevertheless, it is a gradual instruction, containing the entire Mahāyāna path of sutra and tantra.

One of the best features of lamdre is that is has a very detailed description of the precise experiences of traversing the paths and stages through the yogas of the completion stage.
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Re: Lamdre.

Postby conebeckham » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:03 pm

Namdrol-

Is this path of practice the basis for a 3 year retreat in the Sakya system? Are other practices, outside this path, added?

And could you elucidate the difference between the Lam Dre TsokShay and the Lamdre Lobshay for us?
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Re: Lamdre.

Postby Malcolm » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:12 pm

conebeckham wrote:Namdrol-

Is this path of practice the basis for a 3 year retreat in the Sakya system? Are other practices, outside this path, added?

And could you elucidate the difference between the Lam Dre TsokShay and the Lamdre Lobshay for us?


Usually, people who do three years retreat will start with Vajrapani or Vajrakilaya; Hevajra creation and completion in the middle; some end with Mahakala, others with Yogini. It depends. Three retreat is a new addition to Sakya, actually.

There is not that much difference between the two systems, in reality. The basic difference is that the Tsogshad is more scholastic. The Lobshad is based on some manuals written by Tsarchen's disciple, and is a bit more experiential.

You will get the same result from either system.
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Re: Lamdre.

Postby Caz » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:09 am

Namdrol wrote:
Caz wrote:Could someone please kindly explain what Lamdre is and how it is practised. :namaste:


Lam 'bras, the path together with the result is the main teaching of the Sakya school.

The core of it is a concise set of instructions termed "vajra verses" written by the Mahasiddha Virupa for his disciple Krishnapa and brought to Tibet by Gayadhara, bestowed upon Drogmi Lotsawa.

The main practices of Lamdre center on the creation and completion stages of the Yidam Hevajra. Nevertheless, it is a gradual instruction, containing the entire Mahāyāna path of sutra and tantra.

One of the best features of lamdre is that is has a very detailed description of the precise experiences of traversing the paths and stages through the yogas of the completion stage.


Cheers Namdrol thats very helpful I was under the impression it was similar to the Lamrim. Interesting I notice that pretty much the essence of all sutra can be found in tantric practise in general. :namaste:
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.
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Re: Lamdre.

Postby Mr. G » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:24 am

Namdrol wrote:Lam 'bras, the path together with the result is the main teaching of the Sakya school....



I've heard the daily practice takes about 2 hours? Is that about right?
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Re: Lamdre.

Postby narraboth » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:52 pm

mr. gordo wrote:
Namdrol wrote:Lam 'bras, the path together with the result is the main teaching of the Sakya school....



I've heard the daily practice takes about 2 hours? Is that about right?


Depends on what length of text you will be doing, also how familiar you are with the practice, could be from 20 min to 4 hours. Usually a lamdre teaching will give you the right and obligation to do three of '4 unbreakable' daily; people should consider this before receiving.

It's not really about three years retreat; it's a complete path leads to enlightenment; people are encouraged to do retreat but not necessary (depends on what you would be asked by your lama). I believe Sakyapa emphasize daily practice more than retreat, if you are not going to be a dorje lopon.... and I have heard that Sakya retreats are more 'number' retreats than 'time' retreats (you fulfill certain amount of mantra chanting during retreat rather than set a time).
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Re: Lamdre.

Postby Malcolm » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:13 pm

narraboth wrote:
mr. gordo wrote:
Namdrol wrote:Lam 'bras, the path together with the result is the main teaching of the Sakya school....



I've heard the daily practice takes about 2 hours? Is that about right?


Depends on what length of text you will be doing, also how familiar you are with the practice, could be from 20 min to 4 hours. Usually a lamdre teaching will give you the right and obligation to do three of '4 unbreakable' daily; people should consider this before receiving.

It's not really about three years retreat; it's a complete path leads to enlightenment; people are encouraged to do retreat but not necessary (depends on what you would be asked by your lama). I believe Sakyapa emphasize daily practice more than retreat, if you are not going to be a dorje lopon.... and I have heard that Sakya retreats are more 'number' retreats than 'time' retreats (you fulfill certain amount of mantra chanting during retreat rather than set a time).


Correct. It is the three year retreat that I did. As to your second observation, I would disagree. Sakyas are encouraged to do retreats. But doiung daily practice is also very important. Sakya retreats are number retreats for beginners and time retreats for the more experienced. And for those of best capacity, they are "sign" retreats i.e. you stay in until you have signs.

These days Lamdre is usually given as a "blessing".
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Lamdre.

Postby Caz » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:43 pm

How did your retreat go Namdrol a 3 year one sounds like bliss :thumbsup:
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.
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Re: Lamdre.

Postby narraboth » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:35 am

I am sure for many people it can be both enjoyable and painful, I haven't done it ;)
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Re: Lamdre.

Postby narraboth » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:55 am

Namdrol wrote:These days Lamdre is usually given as a "blessing".


It's a huge blessing then lol
I haven't received Lamdre before and after so can't tell, but I think the teaching itself shouldn't be that different, it's the students different.

Blessing or not, you still need to do daily practices after that! :meditate:

I think daily practice is a basic requirement and it's better to do retreat, although I doubt how many could do that nowadays.... (Another question is, how benefitial a full Lamdre teaching can be if people won't do a retreat to put all those teachings into practice? )
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Re: Lamdre.

Postby Malcolm » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:51 pm

narraboth wrote:
Blessing or not, you still need to do daily practices after that! :meditate:

I think daily practice is a basic requirement and it's better to do retreat, although I doubt how many could do that nowadays.... (Another question is, how benefitial a full Lamdre teaching can be if people won't do a retreat to put all those teachings into practice? )



Whether you do daily practices after receiving Lamdre depends on the master giving the teaching.

You don't need to do a retreat to practice the full Lamdre.

But it helps.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Lamdre.

Postby narraboth » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:24 am

Namdrol wrote:But it helps.


Do you feel that 3 years retreat helped your practice or mind a lot?
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Re: Lamdre.

Postby Malcolm » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:10 am

narraboth wrote:
Namdrol wrote:But it helps.


Do you feel that 3 years retreat helped your practice or mind a lot?



My retreat was a wonderful experience. Should do it again. Only this time I would focus exclusively on Dzogpa Chenpo.

N
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Lamdre.

Postby Kunga Leshe » Thu May 19, 2011 8:04 pm

I was just made aware of this, reading it now: http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/lamdre.pdf
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Re: Lamdre.

Postby lkug.pa » Mon May 23, 2011 9:52 pm

To understand the emptiness of inherent existence is to know dependent-arising as the reality of all phenomena.
Nagarjuna's Seventy Verses, verse #68
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