Faith and Letting Go

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LastLegend
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Faith and Letting Go

Postby LastLegend » Fri May 20, 2011 9:16 pm

Astus wrote:This line of reasoning for the futility of monasticism and that we are in the final days make me think of Shinran who realised his utterly evil, totally deluded situation and put his faith solely in Amitabha's vow as the only way to escape samsara and attain buddhahood. That argument makes all other teachings totally pointless.


Right now we are definitely deluded and if we turn our heads now and put pure faith solely in Amitabha's vow, we too will be reborn in Pure Land in no time. The problem is my friend we don't want to leave until our time comes. So we are really attaching to this life. If we really want to leave, recite Amitabha for a week and truly request that Buddha will take us, then he will come. But nobody wants to do this.

It comes down to totally let go, and Shinran has totally let go and repent (admitted that he had created karma and truly wanted to change-to not continue to do again, this is the definition of repent, not just chanting or reciting mantras or Buddhas). So your repentance has to be pure and truth...this is the basis for all cultivation also. Most people are too deluded to turn their heads, so repentance is very importance. By cultivating the path you are considered repenting because you are not trying to walk the path of evil karma (3 karma of body, speech, and mind (greed, anger, and ignorance). This is why refuge in triple jewels is important.

As for the argument, if you really want to attain Buddhahood via Pure Land, while living why do you want to create karma? To attain Buddhahood is to stay way from creating karma. Others people don't cultivate, that's their problem. Not yours lol. To create evil karma, you will be lead further away from Buddha, and only demons and maras endorse your behavior no gods, Bodhisattvas, or Buddhas will be protecting you. The benefit of truly keeping the 5 precepts is you will be protected from evil by proctectors such as gods, Bodhisattvas, and Buddhas. I mean after all you are cultivating the path that's been taught by Buddhas, of course they will support you. By creating evil karma, will this bring conditions that would allow you to recite Amitabha, lets say before you die? What if you just die suddenly?

Thanks for reading my rant
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

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Astus
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Re: Faith and Letting Go

Postby Astus » Fri May 20, 2011 9:40 pm

What you describe is one form of Pure Land practice. Shinran's teaching is that because we can't let go we have to rely on the vow. If we could let go there would be little need of other power since we could manage on our own. That's how Amitabha's Pure Land is available for everyone.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

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LastLegend
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Re: Faith and Letting Go

Postby LastLegend » Sat May 21, 2011 7:43 am

People like Shinran usually have not heard of Amitabha until some turning point in their lives. Those whose have heard of Amitabha's vows but still deluded (still creating evil karma) due to lack of faith, lack of understanding of karma, and lack of knowledge on Buddhism in general are considered low low capacities. Sure, they can go to Pure Land too if they repent at the end by putting pure faith in Amitabha. But for people who believe in karma, Amitabha, and study and practice Buddhism, they have much high chance of being reborn in Pure Land. People with low low capacities can't help themselves. That's why they create evil karma because they are more deluded. For people who believe in karma, Amitabha, and study and practice Buddhism to deliberately create evil karma is definitely not very wise. We should strive to do better everyday.

Thanks for listening to rant
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

Rakz
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Re: Faith and Letting Go

Postby Rakz » Sun May 22, 2011 9:28 am

LastLegend wrote:People like Shinran usually have not heard of Amitabha until some turning point in their lives. Those whose have heard of Amitabha's vows but still deluded (still creating evil karma) due to lack of faith, lack of understanding of karma, and lack of knowledge on Buddhism in general are considered low low capacities. Sure, they can go to Pure Land too if they repent at the end by putting pure faith in Amitabha. But for people who believe in karma, Amitabha, and study and practice Buddhism, they have much high chance of being reborn in Pure Land. People with low low capacities can't help themselves. That's why they create evil karma because they are more deluded. For people who believe in karma, Amitabha, and study and practice Buddhism to deliberately create evil karma is definitely not very wise. We should strive to do better everyday.

Thanks for listening to rant


High capacity or low capacity it has zero relevance in Jodo Shinshu. The only thing that matters is the Nembutsu. Whether your a saint, butcher, doctor, prostitute or soldier Amida welcomes anyone except people who slander the dharma. It is stated very clearly in the vow.

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LastLegend
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Re: Faith and Letting Go

Postby LastLegend » Sun May 22, 2011 10:23 am

^ True and those who slander Dharma would not believe in Amitabha.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

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rory
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Re: Faith and Letting Go

Postby rory » Mon May 30, 2011 3:36 am

Interesting discussion; I'm a pure land follower via Honen so we believe you have to make the effort, Amida's vow is there but we have to practice saying a lot of nenbutsu and try not to commit evil acts. Honen told the prostitute, if she could - to leave her evil profession, but if she couldn't to chant nenbutsu and Amida would come for her. (She did leave and became a nun)
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58


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