Buddhists in America get political

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Buddhists in America get political

Postby Seishin » Tue May 17, 2011 11:56 am

https://www.facebook.com/TheBuddhistPar ... dhistParty

I have to say that the Buddhists behind this campain are coming off as fundamentalists.
For example, item number 3
3) Non Buddhist Religions - We as members of the Buddhist Party, in keeping with the Precept of Not Practicing Other Religions, do not support the practice of Non Buddhist Religions.


Now, I'm pretty sure that these guys will never get anywhere, but I fear this might tarnish the reputation of Buddhism in America, and elsewhere.

I believe that these guys are in some way related to Enjitsu, who has caused a storm everywhere he goes, including on this forum.

Gassho,
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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby Pero » Tue May 17, 2011 12:05 pm

That's pretty funny. Jesus Christ Dharmata, The Buddhist Party, I wonder what I'll see next. :rolling:
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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby Astus » Tue May 17, 2011 12:14 pm

6) Drug usage - We as members of the Buddhist Party, in keeping with the Precept of No Intoxicants, do not support Drug usage.

7) Alcohol usage - We as members of the Buddhist Party, in keeping with the Precept of No Intoxicants, do not support Alcohol usage.

8) Tobacco usage - We as members of the Buddhist Party, in keeping with the Precept of No Intoxicants, do not support Tobacco usage.

9) Gambling - We as members of the Buddhist Party, do not support Gambling.

10) Prostitution - We as members of the Buddhist Party, in keeping with the Precept of No Inappropriate Sex, do not support Prostitution.

11) LGBTQ - We as members of the Buddhist Party, in keeping with the Precept of No Inappropriate Sex, do not support LGBTQ.


Then who would support this Buddhist Party? :shrug:
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby mudra » Tue May 17, 2011 12:28 pm

Buddhist party? Groan....
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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby Seishin » Tue May 17, 2011 12:33 pm

Astus wrote:Then who would support this Buddhist Party? :shrug:


Exactly. So they're not going to get very far, but it makes the rest of us look bad. :cry:
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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby Astus » Tue May 17, 2011 1:15 pm

Seishin wrote:Exactly. So they're not going to get very far, but it makes the rest of us look bad. :cry:


Why would it make other Buddhists look bad? There are many organisations supposedly representing different groups of people. But representatives are never those who are being represented. Or you agree with your governor/senator/MP/PM?
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby Seishin » Tue May 17, 2011 2:01 pm

Astus wrote:Why would it make other Buddhists look bad?


Myself and my teacher have had emails and conversations with people who believe Buddhism is something that it's not due to innacurate webpages/blogs/groups/literature that they have found. Quite often these people with misconceptions can be very intimidating.

Astus wrote:There are many organisations supposedly representing different groups of people. But representatives are never those who are being represented.


Although, most well educated, well read people understand this, there are still those that believe what they read on the net or hear on TV as if it's gospel truth. Think about how many people think that all Muslims are terrorists. I'm not trying to link these Buddhists with the Taliban, I'm just using that as an example.

Astus wrote:Or you agree with your governor/senator/MP/PM?


Sorry, I don't follow :shrug:
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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby Astus » Tue May 17, 2011 2:19 pm

Seishin wrote:Myself and my teacher have had emails and conversations with people who believe Buddhism is something that it's not due to innacurate webpages/blogs/groups/literature that they have found. Quite often these people with misconceptions can be very intimidating.

Although, most well educated, well read people understand this, there are still those that believe what they read on the net or hear on TV as if it's gospel truth. Think about how many people think that all Muslims are terrorists. I'm not trying to link these Buddhists with the Taliban, I'm just using that as an example.


I'm with you on this, there's lot of misinformation about Buddhism including school textbooks and pop-science magazines. But since Buddhism is without a single authority - while many believe it's the Dalai Lama - the only thing we can do is to raise the banner of the correct teaching (what is accepted universally as the fundamentals) as high as we can. This actually requires constant reference to the basics (4NT, DO) and moving a bit away from Asian traditions in that regard. On the other hand, Buddhist involvement in politics is almost as old as Buddhism itself, this includes dark events too.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby Seishin » Tue May 17, 2011 2:27 pm

Astus wrote:This actually requires constant reference to the basics (4NT, DO) and moving a bit away from Asian traditions in that regard.


What do you mean by the highlighted? I don't follow.
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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby Astus » Tue May 17, 2011 3:04 pm

Seishin wrote:What do you mean by the highlighted? I don't follow.


Mahayana schools don't keep referring back to doctrines like the noble eightfold path but rather to teachings of pure lands, buddha-nature, etc. that superficially separate Buddhists and are easily misunderstood without proper studies. Thus to take a clear stance on where is the line between Buddhism and non-Buddhism there's a need to establish the common ground and let everyone know about them so they can actually discern fake from real.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby Seishin » Tue May 17, 2011 3:15 pm

Astus wrote:
Seishin wrote:What do you mean by the highlighted? I don't follow.


Mahayana schools don't keep referring back to doctrines like the noble eightfold path but rather to teachings of pure lands, buddha-nature, etc. that superficially separate Buddhists and are easily misunderstood without proper studies. Thus to take a clear stance on where is the line between Buddhism and non-Buddhism there's a need to establish the common ground and let everyone know about them so they can actually discern fake from real.


I still don't understand how this relates to what you said; "moving away from Asian traditions" ? But, as we are now off topic, would you mind taking this up in a new topic? :oops:
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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby Malcolm » Tue May 17, 2011 3:35 pm

Seishin wrote:https://www.facebook.com/TheBuddhistParty#!/TheBuddhistParty

I have to say that the Buddhists behind this campain are coming off as fundamentalists.


Ignore.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
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he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby Astus » Tue May 17, 2011 3:56 pm

Seishin wrote:I still don't understand how this relates to what you said; "moving away from Asian traditions" ? But, as we are now off topic, would you mind taking this up in a new topic? :oops:


Never mind then, it's not that important. Take it as an underdeveloped thought appearing unexpectedly. :thinking:
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby Seishin » Tue May 17, 2011 4:01 pm

Astus wrote:
Seishin wrote:I still don't understand how this relates to what you said; "moving away from Asian traditions" ? But, as we are now off topic, would you mind taking this up in a new topic? :oops:


Never mind then, it's not that important. Take it as an underdeveloped thought appearing unexpectedly. :thinking:


Ah I get those. :oops:
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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby Jikan » Tue May 17, 2011 4:57 pm

Seishin wrote:I believe that these guys are in some way related to Enjitsu, who has caused a storm everywhere he goes, including on this forum.


Yes, I suspect we've met this individual before.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2448

As an American, I propose instead we consider the World Party.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMtZOXnavWA
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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue May 17, 2011 5:37 pm

I guess I'm the only one here...but I take this as a joke. A satire of sorts jabbing at fundamentalists of all shades but probably aimed at theists.

The notions are absurd....not all Buddhist hold to those views.Those are fundamentalists views present in about all fundamentalist interpretations of religion.

So a statement is being made I'd guess but not perhaps as described.

The US is by pledge of alligence a theist nation anyway.
The pledge is widely recognzed and authorized in wording by congress with confirmation of the judiciary and with approval of the executive.

It states one nation under god ...which is a theist nation not buddhist. At least since the 1950's or so.
So those that are so inclinded I''d suggerst firstly work to remove that wording so your nation may be at least inclusive of those who do not believe in the notion of one nation under god. So all inclusive we may then be considered equal.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby Caz » Wed May 18, 2011 3:32 pm

I seriously hope that was a joke. :jawdrop:
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby Malcolm » Wed May 18, 2011 5:39 pm

Jikan wrote:
Seishin wrote:I believe that these guys are in some way related to Enjitsu, who has caused a storm everywhere he goes, including on this forum.


Yes, I suspect we've met this individual before.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2448

As an American, I propose instead we consider the World Party.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMtZOXnavWA



As a Buddhist, I suggest we regard all politics as manifestations of the Kali Yuga.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: Buddhists in America get political

Postby ronnewmexico » Wed May 18, 2011 6:25 pm

Agree on the political corrupting, with perhaps a couple of exceptions here and there. I say smiling being :smile: a elected member at a very small local level of the democratic party in the us(it happens to be a very small form of service for me). To be clear I am not representing the democratic party in any official respect in any manner on this board, I consider them other than at a local level and in a few exception in congress... wholly corrupted.

On this specific....if one examines the site. there is not much here to concern
six or so total comments specifically on the site, with perhaps one of the six going beyond actually just reading the title. All discussions in March within a week or so of another. A fair amount of likes stated(80 or so) I didn't bother to check but suspect that is much of nothing.

Interestingly one new link of sorts coincideing with this post roughly, maybe aware of traffic due to this post he decided to actually put some content on.

Years ago there was a group of near as I can tell three people that decided to start their own buddhist internet religion with no lineage and some quite faulted early on racist views. They accumulated probably about 10 or so followers. On research it appears that one of the main movers was a sometimes employed sometimes not, libertarian(who ran unsucessfully for some very minor local office), affiliated with fulen gong(not to aspirage that belief), actor who considers himself a actor because they showed or used his back in a subgrade movie if such could be called that. The others....near as I could tell one was trying to sell books on his site the racist inclined one(setting up sites to sell things was very popular at that time) and another(tried being a monk for a day or two to my dim recollection) was selling other things on his site like curiously t shirts and other things, curiously liked to cook very much.

A whole lot of trouble ensued in the internet community over the years over the actions of just these very few if examined not particularly well educated individuals. The sites still exist though perhaps the traffic is gone.
Now due to facebook the main mover has moved on, utilizing this to accumulate about 1000 or so followers to continue with his various items. He is very happy about that.

So is exemplified how a very very small group can create perceptable havoc due to the internet.
I personally have witnessed internet being used by tamil tiger supporter(married to shrilankan tamil) to smear buddhism with allegations of monks destroying hindu temples and other things.
The political environment is quite quite a larger issue and we as users must be very attentive to check the veracity of our information and where our information is coming from before posting. Political agenda now abounds on the internet sometimes in very very subtle ways...these things can be found out if one has the time. Where things are coming from and why....the internet never dies all recorrds remain forever(functionally). Governments do actually try to influcence content in varying very subtle means and as the prior poster states....this is a wholly corrupted issue as far as a buddhist is concerned....all is expendable all truth for agendas expense.

We have at least in the US one out of ten peoples being diagnosed and treated at some time in their life for mental illness. There are quite a few million peoples in the us presently. That is a lot of people having problems. It can be reasonably assumed some are in the active period of their illness, I'd just guess at least a hundred thousand or so at any time. Buddhism and other things new age sites health food, extreem right wing and left wing politic, and such seems to attract these people in their active part of their illness. It can be assumed some of these have access to internet facebook and twitter and do post things perhaps reflecting their illness but not obvious to all.

As expressed with the self made internet buddhist religion a very very few many leave a very very large disruptive trail because of the properties inherant to the internet. One person can for instance produce very many identies to show concensus support and very many other things.
We who have been on the internet for years and years know the tricks and have seen it all play out over the span of 15 years or so now.
People who have entered midstream so to speak have not seen this evolve and sometimes may be caught unawares. Not aware of how down and dirty corruped this thing may be at times entirely self serving.

So this specific...I conjecture one person perhaps a unemployed freelance writer from Michigan with a particular agenda...

Not to worry, like with those three he will eventually move on. The trouble he can create....all only with our complicance.

So much ado about nothing. As I mention perhaps this is a joke or satire of sorts to a sickened mind. There is always some basis for their actions in fact but as with the self made internet buddhist religion when studied there is no relationship to fact. Agenda marked similiarily to political or governments agenda with self interest.
The particular self agenda may be myriad varied and not readily obvious.
Could be a fervent theist trying to disrupt the buddhist community. Could be a fervent buddhist new convert trying to appease himself with a minor very minor view of this thing. Could be a real political agenda of a government or some such. Could be a real agenda of a religious group for agenda not quite obvious....could be simple mental illness.
Any number of could be's.

A real thing....the members he states as elected representatives of his buddhist party....are elected officials who are not members of his party but people who happen to be elected buddhists...part of the democratic party I think by politic.

So not to worry the representative of buddhism to the west. east south north or otherwise and or others that may seem like him or others of same geographical area starting parties and such....wasting our time only are they. As was that internet religion years ago.

No personal notation is made nor intended to anyone on this board at this time nor to any particular faith buddhist or otherwise self contrived or otherwise....all my statements are conjectures....could be this could be that. I feel free in stateing....all is not as it seems.
My critical and basic point being that, (all the specifics are for portrayal and not to be considered necessarily as actual people places or things) ...

all is not as it seems.....

I don't want to unintentionally disparage innocents who may appear similiar to those described by my examples. It is best to keep this in the context of hypothetical....many are similiar considering there are more than 400 million of us in the US.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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