Lama Ole Nydahl, what do you think?

[joeroussel]

Hi guys,

a friend of mine is interested to attend a lecture given by a guy called Lama Ole Nydahl in Albuquerque next month, he also wants me to come. I am interested in buddhism, but I am kind of just exploring right now. Do you think it is worth going to see this teacher? When I typed in google search Lama Ole Nydahl, immediately I saw Lama Ole Nydahl cult among search options, so I am not sure. What do you think?

thank you

Joe

[gregkavarnos]

Hi guys,

a friend of mine is interested to attend a lecture given by a guy called Lama Ole Nydahl in Albuquerque next month, he also wants me to come. I am interested in buddhism, but I am kind of just exploring right now. Do you think it is worth going to see this teacher? When I typed in google search Lama Ole Nydahl, immediately I saw Lama Ole Nydahl cult among search options, so I am not sure. What do you think?

thank you

Joe

I personally am not a great fan of his but others really like his style of teaching. I wouldn't go as far as calling Diamond Way a cult as it has direct connections with the Karma Kagyu mandala of the 17th Karmapa Thaye Trinley Dorje and it lacks one of the main qualities of a cult which is an exclusionary attitude to other teachers and teachings. There are many officially qualified lama and monastics within the Diamond Way organisation even if Ole Nydahl likes to do things his way. He has done a lot of work for the Dharma in Europe and was one of the few teachers to dare take Dharma to Turkey where he was beaten up at the lecture (Turkey was officially an atheist state up to ten years ago, so he could possibly have been beaten by fundamentalist atheists or muslims, I don't know the details but a beating is a beating!). Ole has a REALLY anti-muslim thing going, his reading of the kalachakra tantra is based on this.

What would I say? For want of any other Dharma groups/activities in your area Lama Ole is just fine and has an entertaining style of presentation. Take everything he (or anybody else for that matter) says with a pinch of salt, use the opportunity to come into contact with other practitioners who may be able to tell you about other groups. Who knows, you may even like and agree with what he has to say!

[Pero]

I think it's not worth it and that it's better to find someone else.

[Dhondrub]

If you are Albuquerque maybe rather consider going here: http://www.rigdzindharma.org/

or here: http://www.abqktc.org/

best

tashi

[tobes]

Frankly: His anti-Islamic politics is unacceptable.

Absolutely, without any qualification - unacceptable. In every respect it is contrary to the Buddhist way.

There are many great Buddhist teachers. Find one who teaches compassion, not division.

[gregkavarnos]

f you are Albuquerque maybe rather consider going here: http://www.rigdzindharma.org/

Now that is an event that is 100% guaranteed Dharma! I wouldn't miss it for nothin'! LOVE Milarepa!

[Jangchup Donden]

f you are Albuquerque maybe rather consider going here: http://www.rigdzindharma.org/

Now that is an event that is 100% guaranteed Dharma! I wouldn't miss it for nothin'! LOVE Milarepa!

And Garchen Rinpoche is an absolutely amazing teacher. I wouldn't miss an opportunity to see him teach.

[arisaema81]

avoid

[Silent Bob]

There are reputable dharma groups in ABQ--I hope you'll be able to attend Garchen Rinpoche's teaching and don't waste your time on a charismatic charlatan.

Chris

[Jikan]

After you see the great Garchen Rinpoche, go to Frontier and get the breakfast burrito, with red chile.

[gregkavarnos]

It would be interesting to see some qualifying statements from the majority of those that bad-mouth/write-off Ole Nydahl. Only Tobes has offered a "justification" thus far.

[Pero]

It would be interesting to see some qualifying statements from the majority of those that bad-mouth/write-off Ole Nydahl. Only Tobes has offered a "justification" thus far.

Well my opinion is the impression I got from discussions on E-Sangha and from watching a couple videos on youtube in the past. From the videos in particular I thought he doesn't really know what he's talking about. I'm sure he seems charismatic and funny to some people, though that's not what people should look in a teacher. But we're mostly pretty dumb, so...

[Silent Bob]

It would be interesting to see some qualifying statements from the majority of those that bad-mouth/write-off Ole Nydahl. Only Tobes has offered a "justification" thus far.

Ok, I categorically dismiss Holy Ole as a lightweight and a pretender, undeserving of any small part of the mantle of the Karma Kamtsang lineage, though in fact he's no worse than most of us who regard ourselves as serious practitioners while our behavior speaks otherwise. Ole has used his position and authority to seduce many women, create a division within the sangha with his venomous propaganda toward the present HHK, accumulate personal wealth and tar every Moslem in the EU with the brush of racist, xenophobic prejudice. Apart from that he's a charming and persuasive guy who teaches a very simplified interpretation of Vajrayana. He got into Eastern Europe right after the dissolution of the Soviet bloc and many of his faithful students in that part of the world have never been exposed to the real thing. Senior Kagyu lamas outside the circle of his patron Shamar Rinpoche don't take him seriously, not even a little.

Well, you asked...

Cheers,
Chris

[tobes]

I'll chip in a bit more.

What's happening in Europe at the moment is very frightening. History shows that right-wing xenophobia is always a potential entailment from economic instability/crisis. This is not the first time that minority groups have been scapegoated. Scapegoating on religious or ethnic lines often does not end well.....

That a Buddhist leader is actively involved in perpetrating this xenophobia (do a google search: there are right-wing anti-Islam blogs which have nothing to do with Buddhism, but which quote Lama Ole, and hold him to be courageous defender of free speech)......it is completely unacceptable.

It should not merely be diplomatically ignored.

We should not merely say "well, make your own mind up."

It should be loudly and categorically denounced.

By us. Full stop, we have an obligation.

[Pero]

Ok, I categorically dismiss Holy Ole as a lightweight and a pretender, undeserving of any small part of the mantle of the Karma Kamtsang lineage, though in fact he's no worse than most of us who regard ourselves as serious practitioners while our behavior speaks otherwise.

While our behavior speaking otherwise may be true, it's not really comparable since most of us don't have thousands of students and/or aren't taking on any in general.

What's happening in Europe at the moment is very frightening. History shows that right-wing xenophobia is always a potential entailment from economic instability/crisis. This is not the first time that minority groups have been scapegoated. Scapegoating on religious or ethnic lines often does not end well.....

That a Buddhist leader is actively involved in perpetrating this xenophobia (do a google search: there are right-wing anti-Islam blogs which have nothing to do with Buddhism, but which quote Lama Ole, and hold him to be courageous defender of free speech)......it is completely unacceptable.

I don't know what scapegoating you're talking about but the thing is, Islam is (still) dangerous. I do think that Buddhist teachers shouldn't involve themselves in politics much though.

[heart]

I agree with Chris about Ole and Tobes about what is happening here in Europe. I am waiting for the first concentration camp to open. Pero, to think that Islam is inherently dangerous or evil is to ignore history.

/magnus

[dzoki]

It would be interesting to see some qualifying statements from the majority of those that bad-mouth/write-off Ole Nydahl. Only Tobes has offered a "justification" thus far.

Watch this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7wyIhqON0g

Where Ole says that he is a tulku and that seeing nice places and nice things is an accumulation of merit (he says that it leads to good rebirths). As far as the position of "his" KK wing goes, many other lamas under Shamar Rinpoche are aware of what Ole is (ego maniac with a great lust), but te situation is such that they cannot do anything about him. When Shamar Rinpoche had a little disagreement with him las summer, Ole threatened him with filing a court case. Ole was interviewed in critical manner by some journalists over past few years and everytime, he would turn the criticism around and acuse those journalists of being neurotic for not understanding how egoless he is. Anyone interested can read some of this on rickross forum.

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,59830

He is very smart and he really does know what he is doing - he is building himself a devoted group and is aiming to become a rinpoche for this group (either post mortem or preferably, towards the end of his life). This can be well deduced from the steps he has taken so far. First at the beginning of 90´s after the passing of Kalu Rinpoche, he started to officialy use the title of Lama. In 1997 he created his own independent organisation. After 2005 you can see him sitting on a high throne (except for general public lectures). Now he started to increasingly circulate a story of him being a tulku. He has founded European centre, which he said was recognised as his "monastery" by Rinpoches. A "documentary" movie is in making about Ole, which should solidify his position. Well now you have a story about being tulku, a high throne, "monastery" and the title of Rinpoche is within a close reach. Oh yeah I forgot, he also claims to be a terton, you can read that in his book Riding the Tiger.

So all in all he is to be avoided by all people who seek serious teacher with serious teachings.

[gregkavarnos]

His claims to the title of lama are dubious to say the least as he has not completed the mandatory three year retreat. His claims to tulku and terton are news to me! Another self proclaimed tulku, just what we need. As for his run-in with the Sharmapa this is also news to me.

As for this

...create a division within the sangha with his venomous propaganda toward the present HHK...

Which current HKK? You mean he goes to town on HHK Orgyen Trinley Dorje? Coz as far as I know he belongs to the mandala of HHK Thaye Trinley Dorje, but now with his spat with the Sharmapa...?

PS For those that consider Islam fundamentally bad or evil check out this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazrat_Babajan there are, of course, many other such instances.

[Pero]

I agree with Chris about Ole and Tobes about what is happening here in Europe. I am waiting for the first concentration camp to open. Pero, to think that Islam is inherently dangerous or evil is to ignore history.

Well that's not saying much, is there anything that's really inherently dangerous?
History says some US Christian idiots burn the Qur'an and then some Muslim idiots on the other side of the world start rioting and killing people. History also says that Muslims kill women who are raped. But you're free to think it's just a religion of peace, love and happiness or whatever.

[mudra]

I think by now you have a pretty clear idea of what many people think of Ole.

It might be interesting to note that a Gelug Lama I know (not Karma Kagyu) who knew the previous Karmapa well and was on good terms with him, said that the previous Karmapa didn't take Ole as seriously as Ole thought he did. Apparently Ole would take things the Karmapa said in jest and simply run with it as if it were meant seriously. There was the implication that Ole was actually a bit of a headache.

For sure there are lamas who have strong characters but in this case Ole is a). a self proclaimed 'lama' b). very pugnacious c). given to creating divisions and tensions. His views and statements on Islam are really deplorable.

Though I am not at all involved with the Karma Kagyu, I have friends who are and they have little that is positive to say about the Shamra camp.From what I have understood from other sources as well Shamar Rinpoche himself is a piece of work. In fact I was once on a flight with him to Delhi and observed what I really felt was really unbecoming behaviour. I don't think it fitting to go into detail here.

M

Pero: I agree with Magnus that you really must see this in the light of a bit more than recent history. Look at the Inquisition, they destroyed so much of what the Moorish and Jewish culture, science and art gave Spain that it put Spain back several centuries compared to where it had been. History tells us that atrocities have been done in the name of nearly every religion, particularly the Abramic 'series'. And to talk about "Islamic atrocities" in current history without even referencing the destruction that the neo-con Christian movement in the USA has wreaked upon the Middle East is remiss and prejudiced.