Dharma Wheel

A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
It is currently Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:19 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 294 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
gregkavarnos wrote:

Or at least that is how it seems to me.
:namaste:



Dzogchen is liberation through recognition. That is all.

N

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:07 am
Posts: 886
gregkavarnos wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
There is no way to improve on something perfect already i.e. your primordial state. But there is something to do in terms of removing your ignorance of that fact. That is what I was trying to communicate with you. The difference between a buddha and sentient being is only recognition and integration with that state or not.

Dzogchen is not "a way of being" per se. It is not a "style". It is remaining in a state of knowledge about one's primordial state, that's all.

Dear Namdrol, I am not disagreeing with you but the large bit implies a doing, albeit not to gain something, any more than digging a mound of dirt off a pile of treasure does not mean you gain a treasure, but still a method. To remove, rather than to develop, still implies a doing. After that there is an abiding.

To recognise ones true nature also requires that one recognise ones flase concept of their "true" nature. When you draw a thorn from a wound the body reverts to its normal state, it does not develop into something else. Ignorance is the thorn, the method removes the thorn and the healed state is the abiding.

Or at least that is how it seems to me.
:namaste:


Not doing or nondoing. Not abiding or nonabiding. No replacing or removing. No before, after or in between. Not anything at all.

_________________
CAW!


Last edited by adinatha on Fri May 13, 2011 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 8:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:01 pm
Posts: 291
that is very zen now, isn't it...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 8:33 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Posts: 10290
Location: Greece
It certainly moved my bowels! :tongue:
:namaste:

PS Doing and nondoing. Abiding and nonabiding. Replacing and removing. Before, after and in between. Everything!

Negative infinity and positive infinity are both the same!

_________________
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 1:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:07 am
Posts: 886
gregkavarnos wrote:
It certainly moved my bowels! :tongue:
:namaste:


I hope not before you got your pants off. Don't worry. The terror turns into happiness.

Quote:
PS Doing and nondoing. Abiding and nonabiding. Replacing and removing. Before, after and in between. Everything!

Negative infinity and positive infinity are both the same!


Ummm. Okay?

_________________
CAW!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 8:09 am 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Posts: 10290
Location: Greece
adinatha wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:
]PS Doing and nondoing. Abiding and nonabiding. Replacing and removing. Before, after and in between. Everything!

Negative infinity and positive infinity are both the same!


Ummm. Okay?
What I am saying my friend is that it does not have to be couched in negatives. What is the absence of ignorance? The presence of wisdom. What is the absence of hatred? The presence of loving kindness. You don't have to explain what it "lacks", one can define it by what it "contains".
:namaste:

_________________
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 9:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:39 pm
Posts: 783
gregkavarnos wrote:
adinatha wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:
]PS Doing and nondoing. Abiding and nonabiding. Replacing and removing. Before, after and in between. Everything!

Negative infinity and positive infinity are both the same!


Ummm. Okay?
What I am saying my friend is that it does not have to be couched in negatives. What is the absence of ignorance? The presence of wisdom. What is the absence of hatred? The presence of loving kindness. You don't have to explain what it "lacks", one can define it by what it "contains".
:namaste:


Tell that to a madhyamikan.

_________________
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 4:01 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Posts: 10290
Location: Greece
Funnily enough Namkhai Norbu, in his teaching today, basically said that dzogchen, primordial state and bodhicitta are, well, interchangeable terms.
:namaste:

_________________
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 5:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:54 pm
Posts: 1850
gregkavarnos wrote:
Funnily enough Namkhai Norbu, in his teaching today, basically said that dzogchen, primordial state and bodhicitta are, well, interchangeable terms.

Why is that funny?

_________________
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 5:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
gregkavarnos wrote:
Funnily enough Namkhai Norbu, in his teaching today, basically said that dzogchen, primordial state and bodhicitta are, well, interchangeable terms.
:namaste:



Yes, but by bodhicitta he explicitly stated it is not the bodhicitta of sutra.

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 5:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm
Posts: 1565
gregkavarnos wrote:
Funnily enough Namkhai Norbu, in his teaching today, basically said that dzogchen, primordial state and bodhicitta are, well, interchangeable terms.
:namaste:

Its used differently.
It plays a big role in the Semde literature.
Namdrol, is the term used as frequently and in the same way in the other two classes?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 5:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
Nangwa wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:
Funnily enough Namkhai Norbu, in his teaching today, basically said that dzogchen, primordial state and bodhicitta are, well, interchangeable terms.
:namaste:

Its used differently.
It plays a big role in the Semde literature.
Namdrol, is the term used as frequently and in the same way in the other two classes?



Not so much.

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 5:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm
Posts: 1565
Namdrol wrote:
Nangwa wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:
Funnily enough Namkhai Norbu, in his teaching today, basically said that dzogchen, primordial state and bodhicitta are, well, interchangeable terms.
:namaste:

Its used differently.
It plays a big role in the Semde literature.
Namdrol, is the term used as frequently and in the same way in the other two classes?



Not so much.

I didn't think so. Just wanted to make sure.
thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 6:10 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Posts: 10290
Location: Greece
From Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, 1600:
Quote:
JULIET:
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.

Attachment:
sumatran rhinocerous dung.jpg
sumatran rhinocerous dung.jpg [ 18.02 KiB | Viewed 368 times ]

:namaste:

_________________
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 6:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
gregkavarnos wrote:
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;



"A rose is a rose is a rose".

-- G. Stein.

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 6:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:07 am
Posts: 886
gregkavarnos wrote:
Funnily enough Namkhai Norbu, in his teaching today, basically said that dzogchen, primordial state and bodhicitta are, well, interchangeable terms.
:namaste:


This is right. This is beyond presence or absence.

_________________
CAW!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 6:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:07 am
Posts: 886
Hey Namdrol, Don't know if you saw above. Was that Mahamudra text you cited above published in English somewhere?

_________________
CAW!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 6:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
adinatha wrote:

Is the text above published in English somewhere? I would like to hunt down a copy. Wonderful!


Only in my incomplete and unedited rendering.

N

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 6:42 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Posts: 10290
Location: Greece
Quote:
I beg your pardon I never promised you a rose garden
Along with the sunshine there's gotta be a little rain sometime
When you take you gotta give so live and let live and let go oh oh oh oh
I beg your pardon I never promised you a rose garden.

Martina McBride
:tongue:
PS Yeshe Tsogyal step aside, there's a new dakini in town!

_________________
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 6:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:07 am
Posts: 886
Namdrol wrote:
BTW, this real mahāmudra is beyond so called "essence" mahāmudra since essence mahāmudra depends in an introduction.


What are you referring to when you say "essence mahamudra"? What introduction?

_________________
CAW!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 294 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group