Why ? - Dhamma Wheel

Why ?

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Why ?

Postby Joop » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:46 am


A post perhaps not everybody will like.
I'm Joop, a freethinker Theravadin from the Netherlands (sometime I say: a non-existing tradition)

Yesterday I had a discussion with a man who calls himself Namdrol, in another forum: E-Sangha.
A not very nice discussion, partly because he closed the topic and made the name of 'dhammawheel' in my post invisible.
It was about my question to the people who started this Dhammawheel forum:
Why this new forum ? Was the culture in E-Sangha that bad?

Perhaps it was and is and that makes me sad.
Because I prefer discussing within Theravada and within the broad buddhist way, with Theravadins and other Buddhists.

I'm not sure that is possible in this forum. I can be a bit sectarian to me.
And I'm not sure also Modern Theravada (that's for me: Buddhism without Buddhaghosa) is possible here.

So I'm not sure I will join this forum.



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Re: Why ?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:56 am

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Re: Why ?

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:01 am

Hi Joop
I can't really talk about E-Sangha as I have never been a member, but Buddhaghosa is not someone I look at as difinitive, or as Theravada.
remember he came a millennium after Buddha and they got on just fine before him so after is not going to be a problem either is it?
their are many views expressed here not all theravada and not all theravada views are incorporating Buddhaghosa!
If you are going to join hi and welcome if not nice to meet you!

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Why ?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:03 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Why ?

Postby Ben » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:08 pm

Hi Joop

Welcome to Dhamma Wheel and I hope you choose to stick around and help make this a great environment for yourself and others to learn about and discuss the Dhamma. As Tilt has said, there are Mahayanist practitioners who are active members of Dhamma Wheel. All are welcome at Dhamma Wheel regardless whether they consider Buddhaghossa authoritative or not, or whether they consider themselves Theravadin or not.
Kind regards

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..


Re: Why ?

Postby Element » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:25 pm

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Re: Why ?

Postby Dhammanando » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:57 pm

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Why ?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:46 am

Hi Joop,

I remember your good posts. Here we have four Modern Theravada sub-forums and I remember how you liked to post in the Modern Theravada, so your views and knowledge are certainly welcome here!

As for the being censored out over there, here is some advice from the Buddha about the importance of spreading the Dhamma and not hiding or censoring it:

Wander forth, O bhikkhus, for the welfare of the multitude, for the happiness of the multitude, out of compassion for the world, for the good, welfare, and happiness of devas and humans. Let not two go the same way. Teach, O bhikkhus, the Dhamma that is good in the beginning, good in the middle, good in the end, with the right meaning and phrasing.” Samyutta Nikaya 4.453

These three things, O monks, shine openly, not in secrecy. What three? The disc of the moon, the disc of the sun, and the Dhamma and Discipline explained by the Tathagata.” Anguttara Nikaya 3.129

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Re: Why ?

Postby Jechbi » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:55 am

Welcome. I hope you stick around.

Looks like your question has not been directly answered, and perhaps it is not appropriate to do so, but I'd like to offer my perspective.

I very much appreciate E-Sangha. I think Namdrol is, in his own unique way, helpful and informative. But personally I feel more comfortable in an environment where communication is more open, where people are allowed to make mistakes now and then, and where discussions are not routinely shut down for no apparent reason. Sadly, there is simply no way at E-Sangha for members to talk about E-Sangha openly. Constructive criticism is not allowed. Public feedback about the site is not welcome. That strikes me as bizarre and, frankly, at odds with my understanding of Dhamma.

E-Sangha, as a privately owned site, certainly may do as it pleases and create the environment it feels is best. It is not a matter of censorship, because E-Sangha is not the government, and there are alternatives. Of course the mods and admins there should be allowed to do as they please. Their members can decide whether it works for them or not. Personally, I think simply provides a more open environment where real discussion and appropriate debate are far more welcome. I don't feel like I'm walking on eggshells over here. Plus, if I want to, I can openly criticize things here, and nobody's going to make me invisible.

That said, I'd like to express my gratitude to Namdrol and others who have made E-Sangha very much a valuable service. It might be the second-best site on the Web. ;)


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Re: Why ?

Postby Aloka » Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:28 am

Hi Joop,

In my opinion you should definately stay here and enjoy this forum. I am a practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism and already I am learning new things through having joined this site. I haven't taken part in any discussions yet because I'm a little shy and so I'm content to read what others have to say for the moment. The mods here have been most welcoming and kind to me, and have even allowed me to mention my own group.

Kind wishes,


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Re: Why ?

Postby ShinMeiDokuJoh » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:42 pm

Pali in Thai Script:

Pali Sutta, Gatha and Paritta in Thai Script:

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