U.S. adopts harsher tone toward China on human rights

[Mr. G]

(Reuters) - The United States is taking a harsher tone toward China on human rights, saying its record is "deplorable" and calling it a "fool's errand" to try to halt the march of freedom.

But rights advocates and analysts said it was by no means clear the tougher public stance would temper a Chinese crackdown on dissidents or presage a more muscular U.S. policy to advance rights in China.

In an interview with the Atlantic Magazine published on Tuesday, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton took the Chinese to task in some of her most vivid language to date.

"We don't walk away from dealing with China because we think they have a deplorable human rights record," she said in the April 7 interview, which focused largely on political upheaval in the Middle East.

Read More Here...

[ronnewmexico]

Hello again Mr Gordo, Nice to talk to you again.

WE have had these discussions before.....is the US in any position to decry anyone elses human rights record? Last I checked.... Amnesty international had a bit of a issue with a thing called water boarding, and torturous actions against a ex soldier called Bradley Manning, and according to the british medical journal publication within such.....a death toll of 600k due to a certain unwarranted war for no good reason.
Killing being the ultimate ursurpation of ones human rights.

Sept 11th by some peoples take refers not to the American Sept 11, but to a nation sent into a sprial of death torture and destruction at the murder of its elected leader by a person called Pinochet. Aided and abbetted most conclusively proven by the US in the interests of stopping socialism in its tracks.
I won't even get into the treatment of american indians and such....want to find a area of america with no running water nor electricity for people to use.....right there today is where you will find it....on Indian reservations in the US, not elsewhere.

So yes China...I agree wholeheartedly....they suck. A income disparity by WHO calculations approximately equal to the US....reflecting perhaps but one equality of sorts.....nations that attest to useage of death penelty and more...but a couple of equations of similiarity, torture I could go on and on.
What exactly is the US's role in Afghanistan now that Bin Laden is gone.....50 or so Al Queda operatives is what I have heard in that nations as yet....
The Soviets indiscression in this area a cause of great moral indignation to the US not so many years ago.

So pray tell Gordo....what are you talking about?
INdividually quite right we should all raise our voices. Our great nation.....it is a joke to do so, and laughted at undoubtably internationally

International this forum is a bit it seems.

[Mr. G]

Hello again Mr Gordo, Nice to talk to you again.

Hi ron, long time no see.

WE have had these discussions before.....is the US in any position to decry anyone elses human rights record?

I never said they were.

Last I checked.... Amnesty international had a bit of a issue with a thing called water boarding, and torturous actions against a ex soldier called Bradley Manning, and according to the british medical journal publication within such.....a death toll of 600k due to a certain unwarranted war for no good reason.
Killing being the ultimate ursurpation of ones human rights.

Sept 11th by some peoples take refers not to the American Sept 11, but to a nation sent into a sprial of death torture and destruction at the murder of its elected leader by a person called Pinochet. Aided and abbetted most conclusively proven by the US in the interests of stopping socialism in its tracks.
I won't even get into the treatment of american indians and such....want to find a area of america with no running water nor electricity for people to use.....right there today is where you will find it....on Indian reservations in the US, not elsewhere.

So yes China...I agree wholeheartedly....they suck. A income disparity by WHO calculations approximately equal to the US....reflecting perhaps but one equality of sorts.....nations that attest to useage of death penelty and more...but a couple of equations of similiarity, torture I could go on and on.
What exactly is the US's role in Afghanistan now that Bin Laden is gone.....50 or so Al Queda operatives is what I have heard in that nations as yet....
The Soviets indiscression in this area a cause of great moral indignation to the US not so many years ago.

Your not saying anything I disagree with.

So pray tell Gordo....what are you talking about?

I posted no comment of my own in the first post ron. It's a news piece that you or others can choose to converse on or not.

[conebeckham]

Everybody sucks. We all suck. Welcome to samsara.

[ronnewmexico]

Yes certainly, and converse I will Gordo.

Acts to my opinion are statements most unequivocally.

Nothing wrong at all with posting such things as this. As another poster states...this is after all samsaric in nature.
No right to it at all as well.
The problem with the statement is perhaps akin to a drunk, one who has problem drinking, in the process of getting drunk, admonishing another he/she sees drinking ....to not drink as it is wrong.

The problem with such things is they reak of hypocricy. In such things in this samsaric realm, one leads to certain other things. That thing in this particular being a cheapening of speech, right truthful speech. And so we have statements leading to such things as....stated directly above.....we all suck.

Well in a sense we do being human. But when speech is so taken for granted with no admonishment at calling hypocricy what it is, when obviously seen....the conclusion comes easy...all are hypocritics after all. And from that the logical extension into such things as.....there is no real truth all is gray or shades of truthfullness and falsehood.

A current american dillema by my take, another causual effect of a spiritual malise which grips the nation called US.
All seeking perhaps the spiritual are considered as a one eyed man in the land of the blind a king(but not close to fully sighted, no depth perception)....
Spiritually the greatest we can attest to is....being indicisive or uncertain.That since all else we experience in this matter is beset with hypocracy falsehood and obvious logical inconsistancy.

So indicision grayness and inaction then become the norm and prefered behavior.
So being certain is equated with a spiritual unknowing. And being uncertain the greatest of virtues.

Well this is not so, and in this matter not all nations are like China or the US. Rare actually the numbers on our hands can be counted the nations which for one abscribe to the death penalty as a solution to crime.
Some nations are actually in many respect trying to do the right thing.

So I comment Mr Gordo, as you have indicated I may.....China the US, I can name a bunch of countries that suck. All....no not by a long shot.
The statement you are not making a statement by posting this....I firmly disagree with that contention.
Yes...I am fully aware you have not stated in a literal fashion anything.
But all is not literal it seems.

I perhaps can then post on a Buddhist forum a quote from a particular form of Buddhism that states such absurdities as Buddhists may not be gay and be Buddhist or any such thing. Simply post such a thing with no comment by me.....

and all will fully know a statement is being made....yes
by me. Though no personal comment offered. NOw if I post and then qualify with statement...well then another statement is being made.

As post is offered comment is offered as well. To qualify my statement Gordo, I state...."is the US in any position to decry anyone elses human rights record?
.
not is Gordo in any position to decry anyone elses human rights record.
So it is not a personal comment but a comment upon the subject at hand. And I do ask Gordo.....what pray tell are you talking about.....clarify your position if you hold one. If you agree with me then well then, we agree. I am glad to hear that. Perhaps I confuse you with my statement....what pray tell are you talking about. To be clear I mean exactly....what is your intention with this thing. This post. I realize you are not literally talking as I am not literally praying

[Indrajala]

The US and Chinese governments are more or less equally full of evil and emotionally retarded individuals who put forth personal gain over the welfare of both their citizens and global humanity.

Unfortunately you can expect conflict between the two as time goes on because China is a threat to US interests.

[Luke]

The US and Chinese governments are more or less equally full of evil and emotionally retarded individuals who put forth personal gain over the welfare of both their citizens and global humanity.

Unfortunately you can expect conflict between the two as time goes on because China is a threat to US interests.

Of course, the other possibility is that the US and China could cooperate in an oligarchic way and repress the world together. Both possibilities aren't good. We need to spread the Dharma inside both countries to change them from within.

[ronnewmexico]

To my personal opinion, I would fault on the side of agression being used in some manner in these things.

The US prior to the 9/11 attack seemed to be headed towards a military response as alternative to the economic.
But the carevat is...China does hold 1 trillion plus of US debt. The US appears a declineing empire and China one ascending.
HOwever China due to geography and ethenticity has not a homogeneous population which the US largly has.
So China is prone to dissolution upon the politic. But the US is fairly rapidly declineing, which may in itself generate
much political turmoil.

The lessons of economic necessity presenting as the great depression in recent history and their political
and social outcomes are however not pretty. Global population increase will provide a continual impetus
towards resource scarcity and consequent regional and ethnic turmoils which will probably precipitate
wars.

Cooperation in dominance of the world by these two powers could happen I'd guess. But historically
things generally don't work out that way. The Spanish and English colonial conflicts perhaps most recently attesting
to that opinion. There was plenty for all to be had in the rape pilliage plunder and domination of the undeveloped
world in the hayday of the colonial period. But conflict was the norm.

I'd guess seeing the debt and corporate influence on government in the US its decline will be quite precipitous
in empire terms. Here today gone tomorrow. The US holds a relatively small land mass compared to the rest of
the world and a relatively smaller population than many other countries. Agression due to lack of economic
power may become not a option, as they simply are quite quickly running out of money.Corporations look to the immediate not
long term, so China as such has a great advantage competitively over America, as the US is completely corporately dominated.

If I were a betting man I would bet on the US becoming within the next 50 years or so inconsquential in relative
terms to China. China and asia becoming the economic mover of the world. The question for China will be however
will it reatain its singular identity as China. HIstory speaks against that as well.
So I would also bet against China retaining its singular identity. But loss of singular identity does not speak
of loss of economic power.

The adherance to corporate influence and dominance ironically(to me quite karmically,and comically) directly leads
to the US's demise as economic power. Capitalism in a sense proven as Marx stated to have eaten its own offspring...eventually.
But no more wars from the american side...they are simply not affordable.
China will persist in some form due to its advantage of long term planning, currently. But upon dissolution such
a advantage will quickly dissolve. But the US will be globablly by that time no longer a player of empire. As england is perhaps currently.
JUst one of many many aspirants to empire, or retention of lost empire.

Us empire wise...timewise in such things...a blip not even historically, in the end, worth mentioning perhaps. Ottoman,Greek, English Roman and on and on, many hundreds of years duration. A empire of 50 or so years.....not much empire wise in such things.

So all that said......China ascending US descending.....a war between the two....the US is already to weak economically to sustain such a
endeavor. It could not at present happen. In the end this is the single solitary only mover to stop US agression upon the world...lack of a means to do so.....they cannot afford it....quite sadly. Image a world where the US perhaps took the trillion spent upon just one war(Iraq) and instead spent
it upon bringing wells and water to people globally, or ability to provide food....what a good and wonder that would have been. So sad...such is humanity.

As a aside those on the Tibetan side of things currently will take the dissolution of China as a great great things and
a chance for autonimity. But unfortunately the cards to be drawn in such things as above speak of the past.
When China dissolves since Tibetans are now a minority in their areas, a vastly outnumbered population, I could
easily see such a dissolution causing gernocidal actions by the majority population upon the minority. The undercurrents
I find in media is a quite unfortunate hatred of Tibetans by some hUan. IN times of turmoil, historically such present
minorities quite often become majorities and ensuing genocidal actions occur. In any event there can be no Tibetan Tibet.
As there can never be a native american america. The respective populations have been simply displaced.

So by my take those working for the demise of the Chinese state may quite ironically and sadly be creating the
circumstance of greater harm for Tibetans in Tibet. China staying togeter people harm wise, may be lesser harm
than what will ensue in its dissolution. The area is riddled by regional and ethnic warlike behavior and genocidal
actions by differing ethenticities historically, (a minor annotation to this is perhaps the Sino Tibetan war available for review on Wikipedia). A united China generally tones that down a bit currently.
As the dissolution of the economic might of the US will result in much harm and suffering to its inhabitants.
They the people are relatively affluent currently comparitively. Without empire and in a environment of
corporate governance.....1800's Dickens type england is what I see will quickly ensue.Quite painful for the masses.

But no mater what I think will ensue or what anyone of us sees....these things are simply beyond our control.
Propoganda and statements by heads of states on both sides as regards to human rights....it is all simply nonsense
which I can do without personally. Neither side gives a single solitary fig about human individual rights.
Power is what they want to retain. HUman rights are but one more tool of that propogandistic machine.
China plays the same card in other venues such as UN action, when it benefits their interests.

NO offense to the initial poster, a compassionate careing person he is..... and nothing personal intended in
any of this. It is simply my opinion which is undoubtably offensive to some. I personally don't wish these things
to happen or to be as they are....but they seemingly are.