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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:22 pm 
This strikes me as being so to-the-point. What do you think, about states of mind and the potentially steady planting of seeds?

:namaste:

"How can we eliminate the deepest source of all unsatisfactory experience? Only by cultivating certain qualities within our mindstream. Unless we possess high spiritual qualifications, there is no doubt that the events life throws upon us will give rise to frustration, emotional turmoil, and other distorted states of consciousness. These imperfect states of mind in turn give rise to imperfect activities, and the seeds of suffering are ever planted in a steady flow. On the other hand, when the mind can dwell in the wisdom that knows the ultimate mode of being, one is able to destroy the deepest root of distortion, negative karma and sorrow." - His Holiness the Dalai Lama


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:50 am 
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Laura wrote:
This strikes me as being so to-the-point. What do you think, about states of mind and the potentially steady planting of seeds?

:namaste:

"How can we eliminate the deepest source of all unsatisfactory experience? Only by cultivating certain qualities within our mindstream. Unless we possess high spiritual qualifications, there is no doubt that the events life throws upon us will give rise to frustration, emotional turmoil, and other distorted states of consciousness. These imperfect states of mind in turn give rise to imperfect activities, and the seeds of suffering are ever planted in a steady flow. On the other hand, when the mind can dwell in the wisdom that knows the ultimate mode of being, one is able to destroy the deepest root of distortion, negative karma and sorrow." - His Holiness the Dalai Lama


Yes dear. Maybe we should check our state of mind each moment! Remaining a rock ( not move, not speek, not think) when there is no peace. His Holiness says also we shouldn't investigate in mind only. Warm heart.
When the stick of delusion turns around, the clear water is muddy.
In empty or pure vastness are no traces of karma left behind.
:anjali:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:52 pm 
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Absolutely, Laura. I would agree. When obstacles resulting from our own karma arise, then we must have the tools to deal with it appropriately. This is why calm abiding is of great importance. Otherwise, we will react in a way that will undoubtedly cause us more distress that we will have to experience at some point in the future.

Good quote!
:namaste:

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The past is but a present memory or condition, the future but a present projection, and the present itself vanishes before it can be grasped.- Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:56 pm 
malalu wrote:
Absolutely, Laura. I would agree. When obstacles resulting from our own karma arise, then we must have the tools to deal with it appropriately. This is why calm abiding is of great importance. Otherwise, we will react in a way that will undoubtedly cause us more distress that we will have to experience at some point in the future.

Good quote!
:namaste:


Yes indeed, malalu. That form of meditation does get right to the point, doesn't it?

Kind wishes,
Laura


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:23 am 
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Hmh ... the quote reads:
Quote:
On the other hand, when the mind can dwell in the wisdom that knows the ultimate mode of being, one is able to destroy the deepest root of distortion, negative karma and sorrow."


but THAT is not simply "calm abiding".

Kind regards


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:41 am 
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TMingyur wrote:
Hmh ... the quote reads:
Quote:
On the other hand, when the mind can dwell in the wisdom that knows the ultimate mode of being, one is able to destroy the deepest root of distortion, negative karma and sorrow."


but THAT is not simply "calm abiding".

Kind regards




"Calm abiding and special insight are not differentiated according to their objects of concentration. They can both take conventional and ultimate truths as objects. There is calm abiding meditation that focuses on the ultimate truth, and there is special insight that meditates on conventional truth. For instance, there is calm abiding meditation in which the mind is single-pointedly placed on emptiness. Special insight also meditates on conventional phenomena such as the subtle and grosser aspects of the meditative paths.

In general, the difference between these two types of meditation is that calm abiding is a concentrative meditation and special insight an analytical one. The perfection Vehicle and the first three classes of tantra share this notion. According to the highest tantra, special insight is a concentrative meditation. This is a unique mode of understanding within the context of which special insight operates fully as a concentrative meditation. "
His Holiness the Dalai Lama - From [ and more can be found in] " The Essential Dalai Lama - His Important Teachings"


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:14 am 
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BFS wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
Hmh ... the quote reads:
Quote:
On the other hand, when the mind can dwell in the wisdom that knows the ultimate mode of being, one is able to destroy the deepest root of distortion, negative karma and sorrow."


but THAT is not simply "calm abiding".

Kind regards




"Calm abiding and special insight are not differentiated according to their objects of concentration. They can both take conventional and ultimate truths as objects. There is calm abiding meditation that focuses on the ultimate truth, and there is special insight that meditates on conventional truth. For instance, there is calm abiding meditation in which the mind is single-pointedly placed on emptiness. Special insight also meditates on conventional phenomena such as the subtle and grosser aspects of the meditative paths.

In general, the difference between these two types of meditation is that calm abiding is a concentrative meditation and special insight an analytical one. The perfection Vehicle and the first three classes of tantra share this notion. According to the highest tantra, special insight is a concentrative meditation. This is a unique mode of understanding within the context of which special insight operates fully as a concentrative meditation. "
His Holiness the Dalai Lama - From [ and more can be found in] " The Essential Dalai Lama - His Important Teachings"


Well yes. But all this does not negate that "dwelling in the wisdom that knows the ultimate mode of being" is not simply "calm abiding".
You can only "dwell in knowing the ultimate" (whatever that "ultimate" may be) once you have found this object of knowing through analysis. This is what the DL is saying.

Otherwise how do you get to "calm abiding meditation in which the mind is single-pointedly placed on "emptiness"." Where do you get this object "emptiness" from if not from analysis? Do you think from simply "not thinking"? "not thinking" is just an emptied mind but is not "emptiness".

Even the statement "According to the highest tantra, special insight is a concentrative meditation. This is a unique mode of understanding within the context of which special insight operates fully as a concentrative meditation." does not contradict this. Why? Because you are practicing "highest tantra" only after having achieved the right view of the perfection vehicle.

Kind regards


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:01 am 
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TMingyur wrote:
Hmh ... the quote reads:
Quote:
On the other hand, when the mind can dwell in the wisdom that knows the ultimate mode of being, one is able to destroy the deepest root of distortion, negative karma and sorrow."


but THAT is not simply "calm abiding".

Kind regards


:namaste:

Samadhi is one way to directly go to the essence without the use of analyzing but by transmission. To turn to analyses is no help at all! To mix is even deluding. So therefore calm abiding is not just simple, while the conceptual analyzing mind is not the only way to come to understand our nature. I keep it by this.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:27 am 
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Quote:
Well yes. But all this does not negate that "dwelling in the wisdom that knows the ultimate mode of being" is not simply "calm abiding".


Neither I, nor the article, in any way suggests that it does, TMingyur.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:18 pm 
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muni wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
Hmh ... the quote reads:
Quote:
On the other hand, when the mind can dwell in the wisdom that knows the ultimate mode of being, one is able to destroy the deepest root of distortion, negative karma and sorrow."


but THAT is not simply "calm abiding".

Kind regards


:namaste:

Samadhi is one way to directly go to the essence without the use of analyzing but by transmission. To turn to analyses is no help at all! To mix is even deluding. So therefore calm abiding is not just simple, while the conceptual analyzing mind is not the only way to come to understand our nature. I keep it by this.


I do not agree. But since we will never agree just let's leave it like that. :smile:

Kind regards


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:30 pm 
Hi Muni,

When I was taught calm abiding it didn't require transmission.
Am I missing a nuance of this conversation?

Kindly,
Laura

:smile:


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:45 pm 
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Laura wrote:
Hi Muni,

When I was taught calm abiding it didn't require transmission.
Am I missing a nuance of this conversation?

Kindly,
Laura

:smile:


:namaste: You are right Laura. As that I didn't meant.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:59 pm 
Thanks for clarifying Muni :smile:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:58 am 
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TMingyur wrote:

just let's leave it like that. :smile:

Kind regards


:buddha1:

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